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Tuesday, April 14, 2009

Apologise to Gujarat


Earlier this morning a lawyer narrated to me the gist of the report by the Special Investigation Team (SIT) appointed by the Supreme Court into the Gujarat riots investigations.

What I heard was shocking. Some of it has already appeared in a report by Thomas Abraham in The Pioneer. Some other dailies too have carried small reports of Teesta Setalvad's role in orchestrating a hysteria based on questionable and, perhaps, fabricated evidence. Some of the horror stories of pregnant women being disembowelled appear to have been the product of warped minds.

It is likely that the SIT report will find its way into the hands of the media by tonight. The question is: will it be published?

I hope so but some doubts linger. There is a convenient and self-serving mythology that has been built around the 2002 riots. It is part of the liberal consensus and an aspect of the political assault on the BJP and Narendra Modi. To now admit that this vilification was based on dubious information would be too much of a loss of face. The liberal establishment will rally to pretend nothing has changed.

As of today I have not seen the TV channels rush to Teesta to get her reaction. Maybe they will conclude that this story is nothing compared to the rantings of Ashoke Sahu in Kandhamal. After all, there is an election on.

I hope the people of Gujarat don't let this opportunity pass. For seven years the state has been demonised and painted as extraordinarily barbaric. The liberal establishment, the Left, the NGOs and the Congress are all guilty.

I hope Modi demands that all these people now apologise to the people of Gujarat and the people of India.

The riots in Gujarat were terrible. Let the real murderers be punished. Let the Supreme Court intervene to stop the political witch-hunt once and for all.

But first let's see how the media approaches this explosive SIT report.

80 comments:

Sundararaman said...

Unless this is brought out prominently by all those who have a stake in this nation, then we do not have any right to have as our motto "Satyameva Jayate"

BENGAL UNDER ATTACK said...

As I had commented on your earlier article, MODI must slap a defamation case against Teesta. For defaming the people and government of Gujarat and by extension defaming India.

That Modi did not get a Visa to US was suspect to duplicitous US behaviour - hope it rectifies it stance.

This is not a moment to sit back and gloat - but to go for full frontal assault on Teesta - and as I have said before - she deserves it.

ayush said...

The SIT report has been very mildly reported in the media , cnn - ibn doesn't it on their home page it finds space under the nation tag , ndtv has completely blanked out the report, i could find only the daily pioneer prominently showing the report on their home page.

I think Teesta and her NGO should be sued for defamation by the Gujrat govt and sent behind bars, there is no place for such malicious vilification of constitutional authorities in a civilized society , as you rightly said the media too should be held accountable

Ghost Writer said...

Dr Dasgupta,
In addition to Gujarat - I think they should apologize to Modi as well. I wonder what it will take for sensible people to put together a fund and sue the hell out of these NGO-types? Don't get me wrong - I am all for civil society, but these guys are always way out of line
Incidentally, I am now almost certain this is what will happen in the Varun Gandhi hate speech case as well. What if the tapes are doctored? Will these haters of the hate-mongers have the decency to come clean?

Satya said...

SwapanDa, the least you can do is to highlight this wrong-doing in your newspaper and website columns.

R Shah said...

Its a scandal that these NGO's got away with such exagerated allegations. Now if the media has any sense of professsionalism, they should publish the SIT report in full. Or else we the rightist forces have to start, at the very least on the net, a movement against this biased anti-BJP media .

Oldtimer said...

The phrase "hate campaign" is used as a punctuation mark in her vocabulary, though it was plain obvious to those who cared to see, even without the SIT report, that it was _she_ who was waging a hate campaign.

Just apologizing to the people of Gujarat won't do. There have to be legal consequences for Setalvad's campaign of lies because the charges are serious. If Zahira Sheikh, her erstwhile protege, was sent jail on charges of perjury why not the Hinduism-Combat activists too?

Furthermore, their crime is not simply one of defaming the people of Gujarat. A couple of other points to be considered as well:

1. This campaign of exaggerations sought to blackmail Hindus emotionally. Anyone who questioned their fabrications was vilified as justifying those fictitious barbarisms, and of course as justifying the riots. It was verbal intimidation, plain and simple.

2. It drove a wedge between Hindus and Muslims across the country; the lies got amplified in mosques and madrasas; fed into Muslim sense of victimhood, and therefore -- I suspect -- even swelled the ranks of the likes of Indian Mujahideen.

blogger said...

Manmohan Singh agrees with Indian Mujahideen terrorists? Please read this detailed analysis.

One of the point discussed in the analysis is the Gujarat riot Myth busted yesterday. And yes, I support the demand that Mr. Modi should sue Teesta and all the media organizations who contorted these lies. Advani for PM!

neo_reloaded said...

swapan da,
the ELM is completely sold out...and moreover they dont have sufficient viewer ship to cause an electoral impact..all i hope is the vernacular media highlights this point sufficiently...now if the NDA does come to power and teesta does get prosecuted(which she deserves) then the "progressive liberals" will brand this as vendetta politics..they wil even have no shame in questioning the impartiality of the sacred apex court.. so for the dead conscience of the media to suddenly awaken is simply impossible!!!

Anshul said...

Its been 2 days since the news came out. As you suspected, not a whimper out of the usual suspects.
Deja Vu!

Swapan Dasgupta said...

A friend has sent me the response by CJP to media reports:
CJP’s Rebuttal on Media Coverage of Supreme Court Proceedings, April 13,
2009
Mumbai, April 14, 2009

The report in sections of the national media dated April 14, 2009,
alleging that NGOs, Teesta etc misled the apex court and exaggerated the
violence in Gujarat in 2002 are clear example of irresponsible
reportage. Intentionally or otherwise, the distorted report damages the
reputation of a citizens’ group that has been recognized nationally and
internationally for working assiduously to ensure justice to the victims
of mass violence whether in case of the Gujarat carnage (2002), or the
bomb blasts in Mumbai (2006 and 2008) or the communal carnage in
Kandhamal district, Orissa (2008), irrespective of the caste or creed of
the victims or the perpetrators.

The fact is that neither Sri Raghavan, nor any other SIT member was
present at the apex court to “tell” it anything. These reports could
only be referring to a contention made in a four page note circulated by
Ms Hemantika Wahi for the Gujarat Government.. It was NOT a note
prepared by SIT.

The detailed report of SIT submitted to the Supreme Court on March 6,
2007 has not been available for study either to National Human Rights
Commission (NHRC), the petitioners in this case, or the Citizens for
Justice and Peace (CJP) who have intervened in this critical matter or
to any in the media. Any reference to it is hence hearsay and it may
amount to contempt of court to write about a report which the Court has
specifically not made public.

In its written note that the Gujarat state circulated in court
yesterday, the state has given its brief comments on the SIT report. In
para four of this note the Gujarat government note refers to alleged
statements made by some witnesses in the Gulberg case before SIT that
name accused other than those named by them in the written statements
that were (according to the state of Gujarat) given to them by Teesta
Setalvad and advocates. This is the version of the Gujarat state.
Besides this, Mukhul Rohatgi tried to make a populist speech in court
saying that incidents like the Kauser Bano case etc never happened. The
Supreme Court disregarded this argument and did not allow Mr.Rohatgi to
read anything from the report. The court went on to state that they were
not interested in personal allegations and only ensuring that, like in
the course of the Zahira Shaikh case, the trials are fair, the truth
comes out and the course of justice is served.

It is necessary to recalled that in the course of the Best Bakery trial,
too, the Gujarat government had tried to divert the court’s attention by
engineering charges against Teesta Setalvad, secretary CJP and by
implication the NGO. On Setalvad’s application to the apex court for a
full fledged inquiry the report of the Registrar of the apex court
exonerated Setalvad and the NGO completely.

As reported by the rest of the national media, on Monday, ignoring Sri
Rohatgi’s bid to side-step the main issues, the three-member bench of
the Supreme Court remained focused on the modalities of setting up
designated courts for the trial of the accused in the post-Godhra riot
cases in Gujarat. Instead of highlighting the court proceedings, Sri
Mahapatra chose to spice up his report focusing not on the deliberations
or the intentions of the apex court but to promote the case of the
Gujarat government.


The moot question is whether or not 2,500 persons were killed in a
ghastly perpetrated massacre following the tragic burning alive of 59
persons on the Sabarmati express; whether or not ex parliamentarian
Ahsan Jafri was mutilated before being burnt alive, whether the bodies
of the missing dead (over 220) have not been found or returned for
dignified burial after seven long years? All the national media was
witness to this national tragedy.

In the interests of fair reportage and to ensure that the reputation of
a citizens group committed to equity and justice is not deliberately
vitiated before the trials commence, the media should carry this
rebuttal in full. A failure to do so will result in the columns of a
national newspaper being used to distort facts, shape public perception
and seek to influence the outcome of due process of law and justice to
the victims of mass murder.

(Statement by Citizens for Justice and Peace, Mumbai, April 14, 2009,
Mumbai)

We wish also that the following issues

Pertinent issues ignored in these reports:

The arrests of minister Dr Maya Kodnani and Dr Jaideep Patel in the past
weeks were on the basis of SIT re-investigations. Twelve FIRs filed by
witnesses naming these accused in 2002 had been clubbed into a magnum
FIR by the Ahmedabad crime branch that had dropped the names of these
powerful accused;

The arrests of investigating officer KG Erda in the Gulberg case and of
other policemen in the other cases over the past months has meant the
claims of witness survivors and legal rights groups, prima facie, are
valid;

That this was one of the issues why the apex court has chosen to appoint
SIT, the full scale subversion of the process of justice, from the
removal of names of accused who’s names appeared in earlier statements
simply because they enjoyed political patronage; the appointment of
prosecutors with allegiances to the BJP and VHP which meant instead of
promoting fair trial they sided with the politically powerful and
protected accused;

More pertinently the tragic slaying of pregnant Kauser Bano at Naroda
Patiya after slitting her womb was reported in Deccan Herald,(April 17,
2004) and The Indian Express, (March 23,2005) among others apart from
finding place in innumerable reports including the one authored by the
Concerned Citizens Tribunal-Crimes Against Humanity 2002 headed by two
Supreme Court judges, Justices Krishna Iyer and PB Sawant. Similarly the
British national case was similarly documented apart from being covered
in The Pioneer, March 3, 2002 and The Hindu, April 23, 2002.

Trustees:

Teesta Setalvad, I.M. Kadri, Arvind
Krishnaswamy, Javed Akhtar,

Cyrus Guzder, Alyque Padamsee, Anil Dharker,
Nandan Maluste,

Javed Anand, Rahul Bose, Cedric
Prakash

Nirant, Juhu Tara Road , Juhu, Mumbai – 400049. Ph: 26603927 Fax:
26608252
email: cjpindia@gmail.com website: www.cjponline.org

ayush said...

Hi Swapan da
Is there any particular reson why the entire report is not being made public ?

The rebuttal from CJP is highly hypocritical , they have all the right to vilify Modi and his govt for 7 years without any evidence or coviction in a court of law and if the media reports a statement by the Gujrat Govt they cant take it :)

anyway lets wait for the actual report to be public and then we will see ...

M. Patil said...

Tseeta and Co. are quite shameless. Hard to believe that they could not come up with a better rebuttal. Instead of making more allegations, they should answer the following facts

1. Were witnesses tutored by either her or her cronies?

2. Were witnesses asked to sign blank papers?

3. Do they have any evidence to contradict SIT's following statements that
(i) false charges levelled against the then Ahmedabad police chief P C Pandey
(ii) further untruths included:
A pregnant Muslim woman Kausar Banu was gangraped by a mob, who then with sharp weapons gouged out the foetus;
Dumping of dead bodies into a well by rioters at Narora Patiya;

b.t.w, reports quoting her and her friends in the newspapers does not constitute evidence.

either they should show some proof or just shut up.

M.Patil

ayush said...

here is a rebuttal of the rebuttal from CJP :)

dhananjay mahapatra from TOI claims to have access to the actual report and clarifies his earlier report -

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Report-based-on-SIT-findings/articleshow/4407437.cms

RGB said...

Dhananjay Mahapatra rubbishes CJP's rebuttal.

Report based on SIT findings

Amit said...

In their response, Setalvad and the CJP gang are persisting with the allegation that the death toll in Gujarat was 2500. This does not jibe with the numbers reported elsewhere in the press or in Parliament and comes across as a number pulled out of their nether regions.

To me, this protestation of innocence comes across as insincere because of this discrepancy. The government should investigate this NGO and if necessary prosecute them under anti-terror laws for misleading gullible youth like Mansoor Peerbhoy.

Prasanna said...

Hi Swapanda

ToI reporters stands by his story

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Report-based-on-SIT-findings/articleshow/4407437.cms

Incognito said...

A response to response by CJP.

>>>"The report in sections of the national media dated April 14, 2009, alleging that NGOs, Teesta etc misled the apex court and exaggerated the violence in Gujarat in 2002 are clear example of irresponsible reportage. "

First, there was no 'alleging'. The report was about the 'findings' of Special Investigation Team set up by Supreme Court of India which leads to the conclusion that the NGO led by Teesta indeed did mislead, not only the apex court, but also the entire country and much of the international media. In fact, mislead is a gross understatement.
'deliberately cheated with malicious intent' is more appropriate.

>>>"Intentionally or otherwise, the distorted report damages the
reputation of a citizens’ group..."

The more apt word for the people who comprise this group, in the light of their activities, is 'criminals'.

'Distorted' are the reports that this group has been publishing with dubious motives, that are now coming to light.

>>>"..reputation of a citizens’ group.."

This 'group' seems to have a totally unreasonable high opinion of their 'reputation'!
perhaps an indicator of their ego.

>>>".. that has been recognized nationally and internationally.."

self-laudatory

>>>".. for working assiduously..."

indeed, there is no limit to self-praise.

>>>".. to ensure justice .."

'to ensure that justice is manipulated' is more appropriate.

>>>"..to the victims of mass violence whether in case of the Gujarat carnage (2002), or the bomb blasts in Mumbai (2006 and 2008) or the communal carnage in
Kandhamal district, Orissa (2008), irrespective of the caste or creed of the victims or the perpetrators."

Since when did this 'group' appropriate the role and duties of police, judiciary and the executive ?

>>>"..irrespective of the caste or creed of the victims or the perpetrators."

Ha Ha Ha.

Good joke.

These people do have a sense of irony-mixed-humour and no limits to duplicty.

>>>"The fact is that neither Sri Raghavan, nor any other SIT member was present at the apex court to “tell” it anything."

Shri Raghavan and other SIT members have already 'told' what they wanted to 'tell' in their report.

>>>"These reports could
only be referring to ..."

Why 'could only be' ?
Why speculate ?
And on the basis of speculation, why attempt to tarnish the report ?

>>>"..a contention made in a four page note circulated by
Ms Hemantika Wahi for the Gujarat Government.. It was NOT a note
prepared by SIT."

SIT was NOT formed to prepare a note.

What they have prepared is a 'report' that comprehensively destroys the credibility of this 'group'.

>>>"The detailed report of SIT submitted to the Supreme Court on March 6, 2007 has not been available for study either to National Human Rights Commission (NHRC), the petitioners in this case, or the Citizens for
Justice and Peace (CJP) who have intervened in this critical matter or to any in the media."

Since SIT was not constituted by any of these people, why should its report be made available to them ?

>>>"Any reference to it is hence hearsay ..."

This would have been funny had it not been for the background of tragedy.

This 'group' made all those false allegations deliberately, which are not only hearsay, but deliberate lying, and this very same 'group' now tries to muffle the report that brings out their misdeeds by alleging hearsay!

These people must have a too high opinion of their ingenuity to attempt this charade, and too low opinion of other's intelligence.

"..and it may amount to contempt of court to write about a report which the Court has specifically not made public."

That is another desperate and futile attempt to shut up the voice of truth.

The newspapers have reported only what was discussed publicly in court. That is in no way contempt of court.

>>>"This is the version of the Gujarat state. "

...based on the SIT report and the facts that SIT unearthed during its investigation.



more later...

socal said...

Wow, I'm stunned! Twista's $hit has really hit the fan with this damning report. I hope the SC helds her accountable, as her activities clearly mean that she was deliberately misleading the Supreme Court.

I doubt she'll ever repent her terrible role in tarnishing the entire Gujarat people. She must be brought to justice to set an example for the activist cottage industry, if nothing else.

Dilip D'Souza said...

Dhananjay Mahapatra's rebuttal, you will note, makes no mention of Kausar Banu. On what grounds did he originally report that there was "no truth" in her case?

Gujarat Gagan said...

Modi is not talking anything on Gujarat riot, even if something is in his favor. Modi didn't talk about Ram Mandir in Faizabad rally, Modi skipped his Kandhmal visit and addressed a rally via phone, Modi was silent on Varun Gandhi issue throughout during his election trail though NSA lodged on Varun was completely and clearly a political atrocity. Strange Modi this time. We hope it's not forever. By the way where is Arun Jaitley? We are seeing him no where nowadays.

iamfordemocracy said...

By this time, we are almost certain that Teesta Settlewad, Justice Banerjee and many assiciated people were not unbiased. What is more, it is clear that their stand has led to communal strife.

This is a far more serious crime than Varun Gandhi's speech. It is high time a couple of the perpetrators of this crime are booked under NSA. I would love to see a muslim asking for this. That would be the best thing that could happen to India. I urge the Maharashtra government to book Teesta under NSA.

Nanda said...

@Dilip Souza
Dananjay was only trying to tell that he took everything from SIT report only. In this context, he need not had to write about kausar banu myth once again. Hope you get the context.

Anshul said...

Besides the need for truth to come out / justice etc is obvious, get the impression political fallout maybe not be straightforward. My own 2 cents worth - without media objectivity (oxymoron?), BJP will probably be better off avoiding any high pitched discussion on la affair Setalvad immediately cz it'll just become an oportunity to haul up all omissions and commisions of the 2002 riots in the midst of the campaign. Gleeful 'secular' types will tut-tut a bit and go right back to harping about how a 1000 were still killed etc. So smart political strategy would be to keep the response non-shrill. Helpful that atleast any congress spokesperson in a studio debate frothing about the 'holocast' can be told to shut up and ofcourse it will help raise Mr Modi's acceptability quotient a notch (may not be relevant for this election unfort)

Deviating from the topic , would like to know your thoughts on the Mr Advani/MMS 'faceoff'. Disconcertingly, reaaction from even die hard BJP supporters appears to be disappointment with the handling of the media management. Mr Advani should rethink this silly defeatist, maudlin response ('hurt' etc). Whether the attack on him was personal or in poor taste is immaterial (MMS has been given a nice victorious halo by the usual suspects in media). Mr Advani's response did not tie in with the leitmotif of the campaign of 'strong leader' if after his own barbs about MMS weakness, all it took to hurt him was MMS mumbling a few inane prepared soundbites (ref Mr Pratap Bhanu Mehta's piece in IE). This strategy has only invite derision reserved for the kid who gets beaten up in the school.

Venkatesh said...

Dilip D'souza,

Well he said the list was not exhaustive. That means kausar bibi's case could be very well identified but he did not explain it. if the TOI carries an anti-teesta article, all I can say it has to be true, for all you pseudo secular freaks, that is the pedestal. i woner why you dont display this uhealthy cynicism when it comes to hindu bashing

charuvak said...

Now that the lies are nailed, will the silent media (oh so silent, it is deafening) tell the Hindu Gujarati which agency or organization should he approach to get back his reputation?

socal said...

Off-topic:

Swapan,

Just read your Telegraph column. That jibe you attribute to Bill Clinton was actually James Carville's.

Swapan Dasgupta said...

The reply to CJP by TOI correspondent:
'Report based on SIT findings'
April 16 2009
Dhananjay Mahapatra

My report was based on the SIT report and not any document circulated by
the Gujarat government, as suggested by CJP. Whether any section of the
media has the report or not is irrelevant as TOI has access to the
report. Let me quote from the report.

Page 9 of the SIT report on the Gulbarga Society carnage on February 28,
2002, says: ''Insistence of 19 witnesses to take on record their signed
statements which according to them were prepared by Smt Teesta Setalvad
and advocate Tirmiji'' - the reference here is to witnesses giving
signed computerised statements which were not accepted by the
investigating officer (IO) as under Section 161 the officer is required
to write the statement of witnesses after interrogating them personally.

The SIT report says on page 10, ''All of them had brought with them
ready-made statements prepared on computer and requested IO to take them
on record. IO explained to them that according to law they had to be
questioned and examined and their statements reduced in writing by the
IO.'' It goes on to say, ''On questioning them in respect of the typed
statements, all 3 of them stated that the computerised prepared
statements were given to them by Smt Teesta Setalvad and advocate
Tirmiji and that they had merely signed and initialed on such prepared
statements.''

The report goes on to say that ''there are discrepancies between the
prepared statements and statements recorded by the IO. In respect of 6
witnesses, there are contradictory statements relating to the names of
the accused they were linking with (the) crime.''

Page 11 says, when ''questioned about the discrepancies'', the six
witnesses ''stated that they had prepared the statements and not
Setalvad and advocate Tirmiji.'' In other words, the latter witnesses
changed their version about who had prepared their signed statements.

The report also says (page 8) the allegation about the then Ahmedabad
police commissioner C P Pandey visiting Gulbarga Society at 10.30am and
assuring police protection to Muslims but not following it up was wrong
as ''he was proved to have gone to Sola Civil Hospital to take care of
the dead bodies of Sabarmati Express arson victims.''

The report also cites some instances of police dereliction of duty, such
as by senior police inspector K G Erda of Maghani Nagar PS who was found
to be ''falsely creating the record'' and ''allowing the destruction of
evidence in order to screen offenders.'' It also found the pre-SIT IO
guilty of ''preparing slipshod inquest reports,'' etc. In short, my
report was based on the actual SIT report. The excerpts from it should
prove this beyond doubt.

Oldtimer said...

Swapanji,

The amount of censorship imposed on a fact to prevent it from getting out and about in the public domain is directly proportional to the damage that revelation can cause to those imposing that censorship.

Three days have passed since SIT report leaked out, and the silence in the media on this issue is deafening. The reason, it seems, that people high up in Establishment media circles are -- pardon my French -- feeling their asses scorched.

Dilip D'Souza said...

Dear Swapan,

Thank you for quoting Dhananjay Mahapatra's rebuttal in full. I repeat: it makes no mention of the serious claim he made in his original article: that the SIT "found no truth" in the Kausar Banu incident.

Why?

That incident was actually narrated to the Nanavati Commission by two different witnesses in December 2003. See this report from Mahapatra's own newspaper, the Times of India.

(Several years later, of course it suits some people on this page to call it "a myth").

ankan said...

I would suggest that we don’t hold our breaths in anticipation of media taking a fair stance. We have to realize that the reason media is not doing fair reporting is not because they cannot, or are somehow unaware of their partisanship. It is a deliberate decision, they are not indulged in journalism but in propaganda.

If anyone thinks that he can change their inherent character, he is living in a fool's paradise. Truth loving people have to find effective ways to transmit the facts to the general public. There is simply no way out.

Anonymous said...

Baits in the form of sumptuous foreig links (funds,travels, lecture), celebrity status in the local media, prospects of international awards (the ultimate longing, Nobel Peace Prize) are some of the motivating factors for these shrill-crying high profile NGOs. It is time these NGOs are exposed for what they really are.

iamfordemocracy said...

It is interesting to note that Dilip D'souza is harping about one event. Let us have his views on other issues like photocopied submissions and so on. It should be part of his duty to be fair, the rest of the commenters are mere individuals, he is not. I will request other commenters to insist on this and not flood the page with comments. Let Mr. Dilip D'souza come clean first.

Anonymous said...

Some of the "awards" won by Teesta S. (thanks to a commentator in IE):

2007 - Padma Shri
2006 - The Nani A Palkhivala Award
2004 - M.A.Thomas National Human Rights Award from the Vigil India Movement
2003 - The Nuernberg Human Rights Award
2002 - The Rajiv Gandhi Sadhbhavana Award
Parliamentarians for Global Action 'Defender of Democracy' award, jointly with Helen Clark, the Prime Minister of New Zealand.

Dilip D'Souza said...

It is interesting to note that Dilip D'souza is harping about one event. Let us have his views on other issues like photocopied submissions and so on.

Why is it you didn't direct that question to the owner of this blog, the person who wrote the post here? Swapan has not touched on "other issues like photocopied submissions and so on" -- he has picked up only on what he calls the "horror stories of pregnant women being disembowelled".

Me, I am trying to engage Swapan on exactly that. Claiming that the Kausar Banu incident has "no truth" in it, which Dhananjay Mahapatra did, is clearly false.

To repeat: that incident was actually narrated to the Nanavati Commission by two different witnesses in December 2003. See this report from Mahapatra's own newspaper, the Times of India.

Let Mr. Dilip D'souza come clean first.

Glad to. I have views on those "photocopied submissions" too. For now, I would just like to see Swapan explain how he pronounced, based on Mahapatra's and Thomas's reports, that "the horror stories of pregnant women being disembowelled appear to have been the product of warped minds."

(Abraham Thomas's report in the Pioneer is much the same as Dhananjay Mahapatra's in TOI. If you read both, you'll see that they are based on what Gujarat counsel Rohatgi read out in court, not on the SIT report).

Robin said...

While most people would be happy that humanity had not stooped so low as vicious propaganda on Kausar Banu case, Dilip D Soouza it seems is clutching to the last straw of hope the incident still turns out to be true! The report is out for four days now, it is with all media people. If TOI's contention was incorrect, media would be jumping over calling TOI's bluff. The media's stoic silence is proof for me, that the reporter's contention is correct. Besides the overarching contention is that the NGO CJP and its forerunner Teesta Stalvad had been exagerrating the violence. I am happy Dilip has accepted that, however not vocally.

That said, it is true that riots happened and like in all riots people died. But most importantly it should be emphasized that they were riots, not pogrom, Genocide or such exaggerated euphemisms used by the propagandists. I am sure that the deaths should be the focal point of the SIT report in the papers, however vile the NGO's role had been.

Satya said...

Something better about Gujarat-

http://offstumped.wordpress.com/2009/04/17/india-elections-2009-the-gujarat-model/

robin said...

Swapan- Please pass this message to BJP think tank.Most urgent.
Most immediate.No time to be lost.

Out of 200 passengers of Kandahar, bring a team of those passengers to National capital.Let them narrate their turmoil in National media.
Prime time television is guarenteed
Let the young widow narrate how her husband was killed.Let the women and childeren who rescued thank Vajpayee for the new life.


Let the nation know other side of the story.

This is to be done today or tomorrow.

Swapan Dasgupta said...

I am grateful to Dilip D'Souza for engaging in the debate. His main contention is that the SIT report nowhere touches on the fictional aspect of one case.

I am reliably informed that the full SIT report is likely to be in the public domain by Tuesday/Wednesday, if the Supreme Court so permits. The release of the report should end the controversy over what it says and doesn't say.

The larger political questions arising from the Godhra arson and the subsequent riots will, of course, remain. Not least because there is a cottage industry that has emerged out of Gujarat bashing.

Incidentally, I liked Modi's response (telecast on Friday evening by CNN-IBN)to Suhasini's question on the 2002 incidents: "Can't you find something nice to say about Gujarat?"

iamfordemocracy said...

Dilip D'Souza says "For now, I would just like to see" and goes on harping about that same one event about which details from SIT report are yet to come out.

For now, we would like to see Mr. Dilip D'Souza respond to another issue from the report. Let us go one by one. Here is first. This para is from sandeepweb where detailed references are available.

"Zarina Mansuri, a 30-year-old Muslim woman who was believed to have been brutally hacked to death and later burnt to ashes by a mob in the Naroda Patiya massacre of February 28, 2002, was not even alive at that time. She had died of tuberculosis (TB) some four months earlier."

Does Mr. Dilip D'Souza agree that the press blew this false allegation up? (I would prefer a short answer. Not the one that brings in other incidences with it.)

Dilip D'Souza said...

Swapan:

His main contention is that the SIT report nowhere touches on the fictional aspect of one case.

No, this is definitely not my main contention, because I have no clue what's in the SIT report.

My contention is that while Mahapatra originally claims there's "no truth" in the Kausar Banu murder (which you picked up on to pronounce that "some of the horror stories of pregnant women being disembowelled appear to have been the product of warped minds"), his rebuttal makes no mention of this. (Even while he tries to support his other assertions).

Why?

And how does he (and you, who picked up on this assertion), square that with the December 2003 TOI report I mentioned?

In it, we read about two different witnesses telling the Nanavati Commission about the evisceration and murder of Kausar Banu. Is there now "no truth" in what those witnesses said too? Were those also "warped minds"? What about the Nanavati Commission which heard this testimony from these witnesses?

My only contention, once more: in his original report, Mahapatra makes an assertion about there being "no truth" in the Kausar Banu case. His followup rebuttal makes no mention of this assertion.

Why?

hUmDiNgEr said...

To Mr. D'souza,

I think you know the difference b/w a govt appointed Nanavati Commission and the Supreme Court appointed SIT.
I recommend you wait for the dull SIT report to quash the Nanavati report findings.

Neelakantan said...

It has mostly been buried by the TV networks. Times, DNA have carried reports. Indian Express carried a column, otherwise it is the typical ostrich reaction - head in the sand.

Thank god for blogs...

ayush said...

@D'souza
I think the rebuttal from Dhananjay Mahapatra should be seen only in the light of the press release from the CJP which claimed that it was based on a govt note that the media had reported the SIT findings.

Mahapatra made it amply clear that he indeed has access to the full text of the report, I really dont feel that he is obliged to justify his report point by point. And finally as mentioned by Swapan Da once the report is made public everything should be clear.

In my view the most important point has been the unfounded accusations of the state administrations including the DGP Gurat Police's complicity in the riots in the first place for which Mr Modi has suffered irreparable damage to his image nationally and internationally, who will be accountable for that in the event of the Courts exonerating Mr Modis administrations direct or indirect involvement in orchestrating the riots.

Oldtimer said...

A couple of questions for D'Souza, because he seems to be doing precisely that which he is accusing people here of: selectively accepting that which suits his convenience and questioning that which doesn't.

There are three news reports under contention. Mahapatra's 2003 report (R1), his first story reporting SIT findings (R2) and his rebuttal to CJP's rebuttal (R3).

1. If D'Souza is claiming that R2 is not credible, he needs to explain what aspects of R1 are credible and _why_. Witnesses' claims by themselves are not gospel truth, and yes, they can be products of warped minds, as the parts of SIT that D'Souza is unable to contest -- the parts about Setalvad's tutoring of witnesses -- prove. What is the Nanavati commission's take on those witnesses? (We do know the commission's view on CJP"s pet theme of Modi's role in the riots). What cross-examination were the witnesses put to? What is the result of the cross-examination? What forensic evidence attests to the foetus incident actually having happened? *D'Souza* needs to answer these questions, just as he expects people on this blog to answer questions on behalf of Mahapatra.

2. If Dsouza's argument is that every contention in R2 must be buttressed in R3 with a page number from SIT report, then, well, the curious case of photocopied affidavits meets this stringent D'Souza Requirement. "I have views on those "photocopied submissions" too.", claims D'Souza. He better state them.

Oldtimer said...

Has D'Souza seen this report?

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Cities/Ahmedabad/Woman_tells_Godhra_riot_SIT_she_was_not_raped_/articleshow/3833557.cms

""When she was asked to explain her statement in the affidavit, she said that she was not raped at all and she was unaware about the content of the affidavit," said the investigating officer, DySP Pravinsinh Mall."

I await his views on this report as well. Is the rape imagined in the above affidavit the product of "non-warped" minds?

Incognito said...

In continuation of response to response of CJP

...

>>>"Besides this, Mukhul Rohatgi tried to make a populist speech in court saying that incidents like the Kauser Bano case etc never happened."

So, did it happen ?

I mean actually happen , not just in the imagination of 'this group' ?

>>>"like in the course of the Zahira Shaikh case, the trials are fair,.. "

which is what is doubtful in the light of emerging information that 'witnesses' were manufactured by the 'secretary' of this 'group', something Zahira Sheikh had also stated then.

>>>"It is necessary to recalled that in the course of the Best Bakery trial, too, the Gujarat government had tried to divert the court’s attention by engineering charges against Teesta Setalvad, secretary CJP and by
implication the NGO."

Yes, it is recalled that Gujarat Govt did point out the efforts of this 'group' and its 'secretary' to manufacture witnesses in the Best bakery case, similar to what is now observed by SIT in other cases.

>>>"On Setalvad’s application to the apex court for a full fledged inquiry the report of the Registrar of the apex court
exonerated Setalvad and the NGO completely."

The apex court constituted SIT has now found that the secretary of this 'group' has been manufacturing witnesses by the dozen.

>>>"As reported by the rest of the national media, on Monday, ignoring Sri Rohatgi’s bid to side-step the main issues, ... "

It appears that it is this 'group' that is trying to sidestep the main issue of attempt to subvert judiciary and public opinion ?

>>>"Instead of highlighting the court proceedings, Sri Mahapatra chose to spice up his report focusing not on the deliberations
or the intentions of the apex court but to promote the case of the Gujarat government."

If exposing a deliberate and sustained attempt by a certain 'group' to subvert public opinion is to 'promote the case of Gujarat govt', it confirms, by reflection, that the Gujarat govt is engaged in good acts.

>>>"The moot question is whether or not 2,500 persons were killed .."

And the answer, after seven years of enquiry commissions by governmental, judicial and non-governmental agencies is a resounding NO.

What emerges is that this particular 'group' and its secretary has been engaged in the criminal act of subverting judiciary and public opinion with concoted stories and false witnesses.

And now the crows are coming home to roost.

>>>"whether the bodies
of the missing dead (over 220) have not been found or returned for dignified burial after seven long years? "

The question is whether the dead will be allowed their dignity or whether they will be inflicted with concoted fates much worse than what they suffered, by a blatantly insensitive and selfish 'secretary' of this 'group'.

>>>"All the national media was
witness to this national tragedy."

The tragedy, as it emerges now from the SIT report, is the extent that national media was manipulated by this 'group' for their selfish interest.

>>>"In the interests of fair reportage and to ensure that the reputation of a citizens group committed to equity and justice is not deliberately vitiated before the trials commence, the media should carry this rebuttal in full. "

The so-claimed 'rebuttal' is actually a travesty full of deliberate misinformation and manipulation, a continuation of what this 'group' has been attempting all this while.

And this group is trying to hide behind a false facade of 'reputation', while, as revealed in their response to SIT report, committed to denying equity and justice.

>>>"A failure to do so will result in the columns of a national newspaper being used to distort facts, shape public perception and seek to influence the outcome of due process of law and justice to the victims of mass murder."

This is a cheap attempt at blackmail, while alleging the other party of using the very same techniques adopted by the 'secretary' of this 'group', such as distorting facts, mis-shaping public opinion and subverting judiciary.

>>>"We wish also that the following issues..."

As if your wish is somebody's command!

>>>"Pertinent issues ignored in these reports:..."

All those issues are old news covered by the newspapers.

>>>"That this was one of the issues why the apex court has chosen to appoint SIT, the full scale subversion of the process of justice, .."

Attempt to subvert justice is indeed what is emerging from the SIT report, carried out by the 'secretary' of this 'group' with vested interest.

>>>"More pertinently the tragic slaying of pregnant Kauser Bano at Naroda Patiya after slitting her womb was reported in Deccan Herald,(April 17, 2004) and The Indian Express,.."

This 'group' has made the subject 'rebuttal' casting aspersions on a newspaper report, but has no qualms in brandishing similar newspaper reports which have now been found baseless in the light of the SIT report.

Duplicity at its worst.

>>>"...in innumerable reports including the one authored by the
Concerned Citizens Tribunal-Crimes Against Humanity.."

Ha Ha Ha Ha.
So that is another 'group' that needs an SIT to sit over and find out the skeletons in the cupboard.

>>>"Trustees:
Teesta Setalvad, I.M. Kadri, Arvind Krishnaswamy, Javed Akhtar,
Cyrus Guzder, Alyque Padamsee, Anil Dharker, Nandan Maluste,
Javed Anand, Rahul Bose, Cedric
Prakash"

How many of these 'trustees' were in the know of the false witnesses and concoted lies manufactured by the 'secretary' ?

From what emerges about the activities of this 'group' and considering their criminal attempts to subvert justice and wreck peace, it appears, a more appropriate expansion of CJP is 'Citizens who forsake Justice and wreck Peace'. Or should it be 'Criminals' ?

iamfordemocracy said...

I take it that Dilip D'souza does not wish to comment on the one case I have requested him to comment on. Perhaps, he thinks that only BJP or Hindu supporters need to explain all their actions, have to be consistent in everything that they do, and have to follow each and every norm of fair social and political interaction.

On the other hand, Christains do not need to follow any such rules because proselytising is their god given duty and everything is fair when they are trying to convert. Similarly Muslims are doing everything in the name of their god, and so are exempt from any requirements for fair and just actions and thoughts. Am I right?

Mr. Dilip D'souza, if you wish to comment, please begin with the one case I have mentioned. Let us hear you say something about that case.

Dilip D'Souza said...

Mr. Dilip D'souza, if you wish to comment, please begin with the one case I have mentioned.

What is under discussion here? The report from last week about what happened in the Supreme Court; in particular (since Swapan picked up only this from that report), the contention that the Kausar Banu case is a "myth".

We finish with that, I'm glad to discuss anything else you want. Until then, I'm uninterested in attempts to divert the discussion. I'll focus on one thing at a time, thank you.

iamfordemocracy said...

What is under discussion? I believe, "Teesta Setalvad's role in orchestrating a hysteria based on questionable and, perhaps, fabricated evidence", is the subject matter of discussion, quoting from the original post. The yet-to-be-widely-published SIT reoprt is the basis on which the prevailing judgements or suspicions are to be updated.

Nobody claimed that what the Times reporter wrote was the complete and the 100% truth, however, since most of the India media kept using strong words such as Pogrom, and kept referring to Gujarat riots all their time in the limelight, the reasonable expectation was that those who used those strong words should have been close to 100% certain of their conclusions.

It now turns out, judging by the excerpts from the yet-to-be-widely-published SIT reoprt, that some (perhaps, a lot) of the evidence was fabricated and some of those who claimed they were seeking justice were parties in perpetrating injustice and flaring communal tensions.

The case you have to prove, if you are trying to defend Teesta Setalvad, is that ALL OF WHAT SHE SAID AND DID was proper. You cannot do that by pointing to one mistake from TIMES article. On the other hand, you can comment on the one case of the woman who was claimed to have been killed in the riots but was dead four months before, and prove that you are seeking truth, and not taking sides.

Over to you Mr. D'souza.

Dilip D'Souza said...

The case you have to prove, if you are trying to defend Teesta Setalvad, is that ALL OF WHAT SHE SAID AND DID was proper.

I "have to prove" no case, and I have no intention of defending Teesta Setalvad. She is perfectly capable of doing so on her own.

My first remark on this page was this:
---
Dhananjay Mahapatra's rebuttal, you will note, makes no mention of Kausar Banu. On what grounds did he originally report that there was "no truth" in her case?
---

I mentioned this, out of all else that was in the original report and rebuttal, only because Swapan himself wrote, and I quote: "Some of the horror stories of pregnant women being disembowelled appear to have been the product of warped minds." Because he said this and because of the report from last week, there's at least one mention on this page of the Kausar Banu "myth"

This is what I'm interested in discussing.

When that's done, I'll be happy to discuss anything else. Until then, I'm uninterested in attempts to divert the discussion. I'll focus on one thing at a time, thank you.

iamfordemocracy said...

Dear Mr. Dilip D'Souza, I am really and truly pleased that you have declared your commitment to focus on one thing at a time. That suits me and that suits followers of this blog. The question, at the moment, is what the one issue that we can focus on just now is.

For this blog, I believe that it is the prerogative of the owner of the blog. For this particular post, the owner has raised a point that those who (possibly, wrongly) implicated Gujarat should apologise to Gujarat and the yet-to-be-widely-published SIT reoprt is the basis on which the point has been made. The yet-to-be-widely-published SIT reoprt cites many cases. This is what Mr. Swapan Dasgupta, the owner of this blog has said about that. "I am reliably informed that the full SIT report is likely to be in the public domain by Tuesday/Wednesday, if the Supreme Court so permits. The release of the report should end the controversy over what it says and doesn't say". It is clear we cannot discuss the Kausar Banu case further pending the publication of the report.

We can discuss the Zarina Mansuri case in the meantime because of this link.

Of course, if you wish to discuss the Kausar Banu case first, that is fine for me. We will have to wait 2-3 days as Mr. Dasgupta has already clarified. At this point, could we have your commitment that you will offer your comment on the Zarina Mansuri case, and only on that case, after we finish the case that you want us to discuss?

Over to you Mr. D'souza.

Anonymous said...

The best way is to make the SIT report public. The goal should be for that. The media , the proCJP , the antiCJP should demand for this, rather than do guess work. Very few voices has been heard on demand for the public release of SIT report. Is there a black in the dhal both ways?

Anonymous said...

Make no mistake. Mr. Dilip D'Souza is interested in discussion just one selective thing. Just that one thing! Because if you discuss anything else, his aim of shooting the messenger will not be achieved.

I think the question Mr. D'Souza has asked is more appropriately directed to the newspaper that published the report. No one else has the obligation to defend them against Mr. D'Souza's allegations.

Dilip D'Souza said...

It is clear we cannot discuss the Kausar Banu case further pending the publication of the report.

We cannot? Why this sudden shyness?

It was discussed in the original news report last week, which claimed there was "no truth" in the Kausar Banu case. It was picked up by Swapan, who said "Some of the horror stories of pregnant women being disembowelled appear to have been the product of warped minds." One comment on this page refers to it as an "untruth", another as a "myth", a third as "vicious propaganda".

Etc.

To none of all this did we hear anyone saying "we cannot discuss the Kausar Banu case further pending the publication of the report".

Meantime, the impression that it is am untruth and a myth is out there. I'm trying to get at that, and now you assert that "we cannot discuss the Kausar Banu case further pending the publication of the report".

On this, yesterday's Hindustan Times (April 19) carries an article by Chitralekha. (I can't find the article online; this is the epaper version which will need you to log in).

She refers to "Ahmedabad killer Bhanu Chhara, remembered by witnesses for the macabre murder of Naroda resident Kauser Bano and her nine-month-old foetus."

shyama said...

dilip, i can't commend you enough for having the stomach to take up this debate among all the others you run into.
all power to you.

Anonymous said...

I searched the NDTV website for their views or comments on the SIT report but there were none.

Wow! Hatsoff to Prannoy Roy who in one of the panel discussions once compared BJP with Taliban and it took Cho Ramasamy to clear the air.

iamfordemocracy said...

Dear Mr. Dilip D'souza, as mentioned in the earlier comment, we can revisit both cases (Kausar Banu and Zarina Mansuri) after the SIT report is published.

Do we have your commitment to discussing the Zarina case first or second, whatever you like (that is, after the SIT report is public). It is a simple question. Please give a simple answer.

iamfordemocracy said...

Dear Mr. Dilip D'souza, you quoted from my comment.

"It is clear we cannot discuss the Kausar Banu case further pending the publication of the report."
and asked..

"We cannot? Why this sudden shyness?"

I (and the original post on which these comment stream sit) have already set out the context which is the yet-to-be-published SIT report. The link I provided was from SIT proceedings. I can wait to find the truth. There is no shyness about any issue. i do not wish to get into articles unrelated to SIT investigations, not on this page for sure.

Anonymous said...

Dilip , thou art wasting time blogging.

You should be in the forefront demanding the SIT report, slogging

Ravi Patel said...

Where is the Shiv Sena and the Sangh Parivar?

Sudhir said...

Mr. Dilip D'Souza,

Let me try to reason out using logical deduction

I presume the SIT report is available to both the defence counsel Rohtagi and the prosecution (so also the judges of the supreme court). When Rohtagi levelled these charges citing the SIT no one objected to Rohatagi saying that he is lying and what he said is not present on SIT. (I get this from reading reports in ToI, IBNLive and Dailypioneer. I will be happy to read any report which reports to the contrary) So what he said was indeed present in SIT. Supreme court had problem with the delay factor due to this new deviation.

Also now you post a ToI article where the witness say about the Kausar Banu case. So which one to trust SIT or the witness. But SIT says that there have been 22 cases of witness lying. Also some readers have also posted links where some of the claims of the witness was false and people tried to blame riots for the death of certain people who had died before the riots.

payal said...

swapan,robin has a great suggestion and the elmedia (except pioneer) is a campaigner for the congress party,even more vociferous and motivated than the congress itself.So whats new?The bjp has every right to use all campaign opportunities to bring the facts before the people.If you read the elmedia,they are only publishing the congress falsehood about kandahar.

It was the families who were tomtommed by the media to put pressure on the government.Everyone including congress agreed that 200 passengers were worth it.In fact the media and congress did not object even if an martyred army man's wife advised the families and some of them withdrew their pressure to help better negotiations.Human rights of passengers are less important to the congress now than the rights of POTA accused an d terrorists like kasab and Afzal.

This also shud be compared with relaese of terrorists to save muft's and azad's and maybe safrrudin soz's kin even if it was only one hostage.

Contrast this with the media conspiracy in 26-11 by blaming
all politicians even if congress ruled at centre and maharashtra and 200 lives were lost.Just as they blame the amorphous maoist for the swami and 4 followers murder in orissa.Ofcourse if it is a bjp government or a hindu accused then the culprits are specifically identified such as parivaris-sanghis even if false.Example modi for 2002,ramsene falsely linked to bjp even if it contested against bjp in knataka,jhabua nun case,church bombings done by deenadar anjuman in knataka blamed falsely on hindus but muslims were convicted recently.

No retractions,no apologies,and not even reporting of facts like in the sit report case.DEfamation is a crime and the same conspiracy continues with dilip d'souza typifying the conspiratorial deviousness on this blog.The media recently did not report,either proportionately or not at all that a congress minister Surti was convicted for 93 blasts.A congress godhra muslim councilor was behind the train fire.

Besides the kandahar issue suggested by robin,the same also needs to be done with the swiss bank issue which the media is playing up by prominently publishing congress falsehoods such as what was nda doing for 6 yeras when the fact is that only recently other countries made the swiss amenable to disclosure due to the economy. swiss bank laws were unique to protect malafide accounts,hence the deposits to that tiny black money haven country .

THe swiss bank issue is a potent middleclass issue and I urge you to pass this on to the BJP thru Chandan mitra or yourself.

There is no time to lose.We are duty bound to go to the people with facts and foil this congress- elmedia conspiracy against our nation.EVery vote counts with the prez and ec and cbi being congress
handmaidens.Or else we would be doomed to 5 more years of congress rule even if it wins only 140 seats.IF the bjp wins some more or a few less ,the prez will call on congress because the glorious secular forces like muslim league
will all gang up against bjp and nda.

Anonymous said...

swapan,robin has a great suggestion and the elmedia (except pioneer) is a campaigner for the congress party,even more vociferous and motivated than the congress itself.So whats new?The bjp has every right to use all campaign opportunities to bring the facts before the people.If you read the elmedia,they are only publishing the congress falsehood about kandahar.

It was the families who were tomtommed by the media to put pressure on the government.Everyone including congress agreed that 200 passengers were worth it.In fact the media and congress did not object even if an martyred army man's wife advised the families and some of them withdrew their pressure to help better negotiations.Human rights of passengers are less important to the congress now than the rights of POTA accused an d terrorists like kasab and Afzal.

This also shud be compared with relaese of terrorists to save muft's and azad's and maybe safrrudin soz's kin even if it was only one hostage.

Contrast this with the media conspiracy in 26-11 by blaming
all politicians even if congress ruled at centre and maharashtra and 200 lives were lost.Just as they blame the amorphous maoist for the swami and 4 followers murder in orissa.Ofcourse if it is a bjp government or a hindu accused then the culprits are specifically identified such as parivaris-sanghis even if false.Example modi for 2002,ramsene falsely linked to bjp even if it contested against bjp in knataka,jhabua nun case,church bombings done by deenadar anjuman in knataka blamed falsely on hindus but muslims were convicted recently.

No retractions,no apologies,and not even reporting of facts like in the sit report case.DEfamation is a crime and the same conspiracy continues with dilip d'souza typifying the conspiratorial deviousness on this blog.The media recently did not report,either proportionately or not at all that a congress minister Surti was convicted for 93 blasts.A congress godhra muslim councilor was behind the train fire.

Besides the kandahar issue suggested by robin,the same also needs to be done with the swiss bank issue which the media is playing up by prominently publishing congress falsehoods such as what was nda doing for 6 yeras when the fact is that only recently other countries made the swiss amenable to disclosure due to the economy. swiss bank laws were unique to protect malafide accounts,hence the deposits to that tiny black money haven country .

THe swiss bank issue is a potent middleclass issue and I urge you to pass this on to the BJP thru Chandan mitra or yourself.

There is no time to lose.We are duty bound to go to the people with facts and foil this congress- elmedia conspiracy against our nation.EVery vote counts with the prez and ec and cbi being congress
handmaidens.Or else we would be doomed to 5 more years of congress rule even if it wins only 140 seats.IF the bjp wins some more or a few less ,the prez will call on congress because the glorious secular forces like muslim league
will all gang up against bjp and nda.

Srinivas said...

Mr. D'Souza, your quoting newspapers will not cut any ice here. It is obvious that Teesta and her fellow travellers like you have the ability to manufacture witnesses, and gory macabre stories. That seems to be the gist of the SIT conclusions, atleast according the TOI reporter, who has access to the full report.

Until the full report is released, any engangement with the likes of you professional activists like youe would be just a waste of bandwith and time. THat is what many have tried to tell you politely.

Dilip D'Souza said...

From Gujarat riot witnesses not tutored: SIT, a report in the Hindustan Times today (April 22), these quotes:


The Special Investigation Team (SIT) ... on Tuesday slammed reports that riots witnesses were tutored to give false evidence for exaggeration of the situation, by activists and organisations helping the victims.

...

[T]he Supreme Court termed the leak as a "betrayal of the faith reposed in those to whom the report was allowed access".

...

"The alleged reported leaks appear to be inspired by dubious motives. I cannot confirm such claims. The act is highly condemnable," [SIT chief] Raghavan said.

...

The SIT sources said the alleged leaks appear to have been based on statements of state police officials and "cannot be termed as findings of the report."

R said...

News reports say that Supreme court deplored the leakage of SIT report.

I do not remember anyone deploring the leakage of CBI report that gives clean chit to Tytler!

When the leakage is beneficial to BJP it is deplorable, and when the leakage is beneficial to the congress the leakage is ok! I guess that is the rule!

robin said...

I am seeing in this blog around 10-15 bloggers trying to convince Mr Dilip Dsouza.
This is similar to the wrong approach of BJP campaign over the last decade. Each one of us instead could have ensured around 20 neutral or nationalistic voters to go the polling booth and vote.BJP can win not by convincing people who are anti BJP but by ensuring all its votes are polled. In Kandhamal christian camps witnessed 90 percent polling whereas other areas only 65.Same is the case in Ponnani in Kerala where polling touched 80 percent.
The single biggest failure of BJP supporters have been trying to convince so called intelluctuals and media and wasting their time.
Supporting BJP would not be a good CV for the media who are looking for internship and opportunities abroad

So BJP voters please ensure you vote 100 percent.Today I am travelling 60 kms to vote as I have shifted residence after publication of rolls

Anonymous said...

based on the facts it cannot be concluded that the witnesses were not tutored as per the spin of the secularist gangs headline in HT.
The secularists have no credibility because they do not even mention the godhra train in their one sided propaganda for 7 years.Like souza they quote each other's falsehood.

They ignore facts that teesta has major credibility problems with the mansuri,rais khan,zaheera and stabbed vs raped claim victim in the past.Further teesta has connections to worldwide funding which she has refused to divulge.

And now they continue in this agenda as typified with the HT headline concluding witnesses not tutored when mahapatra has clearly stated that all testimony was printed from teesta's computer.

HT has dodged this fact quoted raghavan and then moved on to a mysterious source and then based on his hearsay evidence that state officials allegations are not sit findings even if mahapatra has specifically siad that the investigating officers found discrepancies in the witnesses testimony.

So we are to believe the souzas and the HT and leap to conclude that witnesses were not tutored.Even if state officials made allegations,how in heavens name can we conlude that witnesses were not tutored as claimed by the
secularist propagnada hedaline in HT.

And souza and HT and elmedia are back in form to tomtom each others falsehood to the world.THese same poeple conceal the cause of the train arson and in their reporting hide it.

And they do all this with a holier than thou tone.I am not ashamed of the post godhra riots,given the history of the secular congress justice a s per whom hindu lives have no value in kashmir,godhra train radhabai chawl mumbai 93 and in thousand sof riots inclding 47 mayhem.Atleast gujarat is peaceful for 7 yeers thanks to modi.ge of

I am far more ashamed of the secularist fraud and treason on INdia funded by india's enemies thru agents like the teesta gang in the media and ngos.

Disgusting and they do that with a holier than thou face.Terrorist
are better.tehy are honest and risk their lives and dont plot and scheme against their own land and stoke the communal cauldron for profit like the teesta gang which is only focused on gujarat 2002 and not sikhs 84 or kashmir or pakistan and bangladesh hindu plight.

IN my book even dawood is better.Atleast he fled india.

Anonymous said...

based on the facts it cannot be concluded that the witnesses were not tutored as per the spin of the secularist gangs headline in HT.
The secularists have no credibility because they do not even mention the godhra train in their one sided propaganda for 7 years.Like souza they quote each other's falsehood.

They ignore facts that teesta has major credibility problems with the mansuri,rais khan,zaheera and stabbed vs raped claim victim in the past.Further teesta has connections to worldwide funding which she has refused to divulge.

And now they continue in this agenda as typified with the HT headline concluding witnesses not tutored when mahapatra has clearly stated that all testimony was printed from teesta's computer.

HT has dodged this fact quoted raghavan and then moved on to a mysterious source and then based on his hearsay evidence that state officials allegations are not sit findings even if mahapatra has specifically siad that the investigating officers found discrepancies in the witnesses testimony.

So we are to believe the souzas and the HT and leap to conclude that witnesses were not tutored.Even if state officials made allegations,how in heavens name can we conlude that witnesses were not tutored as claimed by the
secularist propagnada hedaline in HT.

And souza and HT and elmedia are back in form to tomtom each others falsehood to the world.THese same poeple conceal the cause of the train arson and in their reporting hide it.

And they do all this with a holier than thou tone.I am not ashamed of the post godhra riots,given the history of the secular congress justice a s per whom hindu lives have no value in kashmir,godhra train radhabai chawl mumbai 93 and in thousand sof riots inclding 47 mayhem.Atleast gujarat is peaceful for 7 yeers thanks to modi.ge of

I am far more ashamed of the secularist fraud and treason on INdia funded by india's enemies thru agents like the teesta gang in the media and ngos.

Disgusting and they do that with a holier than thou face.Terrorist
are better.tehy are honest and risk their lives and dont plot and scheme against their own land and stoke the communal cauldron for profit like the teesta gang which is only focused on gujarat 2002 and not sikhs 84 or kashmir or pakistan and bangladesh hindu plight.

IN my book even dawood is better.Atleast he fled india.

Anonymous said...

Robin,

I agree with you. I think it is better to go on the secularists website and call their bluff there.

I think the right media strategy is to laugh off their charges and to talk directly to the people.

Sudhir said...

@ Everyone,

I think Dilip D'Souza has changed a lot since 2005 or is it the religion that is making him speak like this. Commenting on one of the blogs regarding the Mumbai riots (Radhabhai Chawl Massacre) he has this to say "Two: One, not “many”, Hindu family was locked up and roasted alive by Muslim miscreants. A crime horrible enough that it doesn’t need to be inflated to “many” families." (blog:http://www.sandeepweb.com/2004/08/16/indebted-to-dilip-dsouza/). But now he does not exhibit the same feelings in case of Gujarat riot case. He has no qualms in inflating a crime that is horrible enough.

Why do I see so much inconsistancy in his attitude towards the 2 cases.

iamfordemocracy said...

Can someone tell us whether the SIT report has now been published or not, and if not, when it is likely to be published.

Know the verity said...

"I have met Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, and both Bushes. At close range, Modi beats them all in charisma. Whenever he opened his mouth, he suddenly had real, mesmerizing presence." Robert D. Kaplan

These r the words of the interviewer of Atlantic magazine. Swapan da pls read the full interview here(link). It's lengthy but fairly balanced.

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200904/india-modi

iamfordemocracy said...

So we don't have the SIT report yet but we have the SC passing strictures against premature quoting from that, and an SC directive to investigate the victim - Mr. Modi.

Nobody seems to be complaining. That is India. That is Indian democracy. I think we are truly doomed.

ayush said...

Now with the Supreme Court ordering an enquiry into Modis role in the 2002 Gujrat riots based on a litigation of Teesta Setalvad, I fail to understand why Modi and his administration are on the backfoot in not going ahead and pressing charges or orderning an enquiry on the role of CJP and Teesta.

Swapan da , Your views on this strategy being adopted by Modi could be insightful

iamfordemocracy said...

Here is a statement from the 'the atlantic' article 'know the verity' cited here. "Modi has turned his state into a stronghold of Hindu extremism, shredding Gandhi’s vision of secular coexistence in the process. "

If that is a balanced view I don't know what biased view is. Is this a tactic adopted by 'know the verity' to get eyeballs for the atlantic?

The biased media have been trampling on the authority of courts by pre-judging Modi simply by using loaded words. The Supreme court never seems to have objected to this.

Here is how everyone can counter the biased media. First thing is to stop adding your opinions. Write letters to Supreme Court about media using judgemental words and eroding court authority. Ask whether court are powerless to act in this matter. Avoid getting into messy opionion wars.

Anonymous said...

I believe, a court order to investigate the roles (direct and indirect) of the Media, NGOs, Big-mouths and noice-makers in the 2002 riots, will put everyone in proper place and this can help the cases to proceed smoothly. This will be a warning for the future too. We need unconventional answers to the problems in India.

Vijay

A. Younush said...

This should have been obvious to all those who looked into the Teesta Seetalvad campaign which was supported by the Congress, Leftists etc and then ofcourse the Congress prize her with the Padma Bushan award! What a disgrace.

Teesta defamed Gujarat and India in the eyes of the world with her fabrications. Many western agencies such as Amnesty Internation and Human Rights Watch simply took her accounts as word of God(remember also her best bakery fiasco - which back fired).

The damage she has done to India and reputation of Modi will take years to erase.

Oh Sonia oh Manmohan have you no shame.

Surely there must be a law in Indian which can lock her up for good. Perverting the course of Justice is something she is clearly guilty of.

rsrirams said...

May be Teesta Setalvad is wrong. But do you want to say Modi or any of his ministers did not have any sort of influence in the riots. Not taking action is also a kind of influence to the riots. Am not supporting the so called liberal English media. But at the same time common man like me do not want to believe that the state govt did not have any hand in the riots.