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Sunday, June 21, 2009

Some good cheer at last

Overall, the BJP National Executive meeting concluded on the right, positive note.

There was justified fear on Day 1 that the recrimination process was spinning out of control. Arun Shourie's intervention in particular was excessively personalised and contained some pretty incredible charges. Maneka Gandhi too added some fanciful stuff about how funds were apportioned.

There were some other interventions which spoke of tactical follies. O.P. Kohli, in particular, was blunt in admitting that the attacks on Manmohan Singh proved horribly counter-productive.

Unexpectedly, it was Sunderlal Patwa's biting intervention that restored some sense of collegiate feeling into the gathering.

It would seem that after Patwa's speech a correct balance was struck between introspection and muck-raking. Many of the subsequent contributions stressed that when there are squabbles in Delhi, they impact adversely on the states. I fear that many speakers, including Hukumdev Narayan Yadav, came down very hard on the letter writers. The Pilibhit variety of Hindutva drew flak from many, particularly the representatives from Bihar.

Narendra Modi kept mum throughout the meet. However, his campaigning in Maharashtra won him praise from Gopinath Munde.

L.K. Advani's concluding speech was sober and reflective. He made the right noises about injecting new blood and the need to re-connect with party supporters. I, however, feel that he underestimated the scale of the defeat. Perhaps he didn't want to demoralise an already dejected party. That's understandable.

I thought Venkiah Naidu handled the final interaction with the media with the right mix of candour, firmness and humour.

In political terms, the debate on Hindutva dominated the meet. It was generally agreed that extremism does not pay and that the party needed to put across a liberal, enlightened, inclusive and civilisational view of Hindutva. The presidential address was too full of homilies (and the English version could do with the red pencil of a sub-editor) but the overall tone was unexceptionable.

It was also decided that some steps were needed to attract minority voters and reach out to the states of eastern and southern India where the BJP doesn't have a meaningful presence.

I believe that the BJP has responded very positively to the disquiet over the "ugly" Hindu face. It has met critics more than half-way. I still have some problems reconciling Hindutva "as a way of life" with political Hindutva but these can be addressed in theoretical terms elsewhere. From a political perspective, it is important to show that BJP is not a hate party.

I feel that the party ought to pursue a policy of zero tolerance towards those who step out of line. The BJP must be seen to practice what it preaches.

The loose formulations of commitment to a liberal variant of Hindutva will also help define relations between the BJP and RSS and put it on a n even keel. Advani cleverly used Balasaheb Deoras's speech to drive home this point. He subtly indicated that the RSS itself has to change.

The main issue now is how the shifts, changes and corrections are to be brought about. It is unrealistic to see change happening from next week onwards but the expectation is that the BJP will look more contemporary in about a year's time.

I think the provocative debate this blog hosted has yielded some returns. It is important to keep up this supportive but uninhibited watch-dog role.

188 comments:

offstumped said...

Swapan Da - You seem to have set the expectations bar quite low for the National Executive, perhaps being close to the event much closer than we are, it perhaps makes sense.

Interesting to note no remarks were attributed to Narendra Modi, the aloofness continues mysteriously.

Bottomline - the fault lines have less to do with inclusive or exclusive Hindutva and more to do with socio-economic agenda. Unless they reconcile the deep disconnect between Integral Humanism with its 1960s world view on socio-economic agenda with Narendra Modi's "Minimum Government Maximum Governance" Gujarat Model, the recovery would largely be cosmetic.

That in my opinion would be the Litmus Test.

Sundararaman said...

Get back to basics should be the theme. From Funding to field level activity there should be transparency and accountability. There should be an element of intuitive leadership. eg., Instead of shouting the BJP state Governments should now focus on the impending food crisis (There is a negative inflation with a significant high food inflation, there is a below normal monsoon and looks like a year of drought) that is likely to arise and ensure that no mouth starves for food in the states they are ruling and be pro-active in states where they are not in Government to forewarn and avert distributional issues that may arise in such states. BJP shud not think of trying to politicising the crisis that is likely to arise now.

Anonymous said...

"From a political perspective, it is important to show that BJP is not a hate party."

------------------------------------------

Hate party ? This term is new in the line of "ugly" Hindu, "sectarian" ghetto and what not. We won't be surprise if these terminology is used by left-wing traitors but what is paining genuine sympathizers is that an ideologue who happened to be a right-winger has done a utter volte-face for the sake of money and fame. Worse he's still pretending as the friend of Right.

Coming back to the topic let me tell you if you are a man then bet with me I wager you guys won't succeed in changing your image unless you get your media strategy right, besides that you also need presence of some Right-wing media. BJP if follows your line then it'd lose coming assembly elections as well (defeat in 2014 is a foregone conclusion). Swapan let me tell u history won't judge u favorably, your blogs will be use in the future as a evidence to portray your image as the greatest Indian Trojan horse ever. You are doing irreparable damage to BJP and Right. Pls think before u write. The only good thing from this meeting is that the so called ideologues,leaders -- in other terms Jaitley coterie-- who were clamoring for dumping Hindutva for their vested are slowly getting segregated. Thanks to much maligned sensible BJP president Rajnath Singh. To save ass of their friends and master (Jaitley) from flogging some spin doctors of the party (specially the one who blogs these days) start blaming Hindutva for the defeat in the mass media! And I've to confess they succeeded also to some extent in their dirty trick. But remember everybody isn't fool. There is a famous saying: "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time".

Anonymous said...

"In political terms, the debate on Hindutva dominated the meet. It was generally agreed that extremism does not pay and that the party needed to put across a liberal, enlightened, inclusive and civilisational view of Hindutva. The presidential address was too full of homilies (and the English version could do with the red pencil of a sub-editor) but the overall tone was unexceptionable."

If you don't feel comfortable with right-wingers then shun it completely. There is no point swinging between left-liberalness to center- Right. Liberal my foot.

Anonymous said...

Kudos to Patwa for putting power mongers/self seekers with axes to grid, in line.

We have a very good/nationalist/contructive opposition party in place.

There was a time when I was proud of our opposition party(BJP) during Narsimha Rao Regime.

This forum has upset the Congress Chamcha/bank rolled editors and hence the personal attacks on you.

Thank you for your good work,
Vikas

Anonymous said...

Well..why do I have this feeling..the more it changes it remains the same. I just hope not.

Ram Srinivasan said...

I attended the Friends of BJP even in Hyderabad, which was addressed by Arun Shourie, & I & many others found his speech very negative, which left a bad after taste. This is something we played back to Friends of BJP organisers in Mumbai immediately after the event.

He seems to be playing a similar role within the BJP. Given the tone & tenor he took in his speech, one gets the feeling that he was responsible, was the attacks on MMS, that clearly backfired. Considering how critical he is of others, maybe it is high time someone pointed this out to him. While I have great respect for his intellectual abilities, he doesnt seem to realise that he is not being constructive here.

Ram

Balaji said...

>> I feel that the party ought to pursue a policy of zero tolerance towards those who step out of line.

spot on. how about throwing the Gandhi's out of the BJP? if the son says he'll chop off muslim hands, the mother has the gall to tell the national executive that Muslim votes are not needed. Both of them need to be thrown out of the party.

and I know there'll be many who say showing Gandhi's the door is an extreme step. oh boy, have we learnt any lesson at all from the past? From Dara Singh to Narendra Modi to Sadhvi Pragya to Varun Gandhi, the moral cowardice we show is amazing.

Editor said...

Easy to talk about inclusive Hindutva. Practising it is going to be tough. I can predict the next time a Varun-like episode happens, we can see the same confusion and fake dissociation again. There is a constituency which wants that, and BJP can ill-afford to ignore them.

Arjun said...

Good to hear. I hope that given time, the BJP will regain its position as the natural party for governance.

Arun said...

BJP being run by six journalists: Shourie

He did not name anyone but it was obvious that he referred to the members of LK Advani’s think tank, namely Sudheendra Kulkarni, Balbir Punj, Chandan Mitra, Swapan Dasgupta, Kanchan Gupta and Ravindra Dani.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2009/20090621/main4.htm

Coming from Shourie, this is a compliment!!

Anonymous said...

gopi great answer.wonder how many know affiliatins of all theese media-mafia

shobanabharatiya is vir saghvis boss and these people are posing neutral media to fool gullibles ignorants with a hidden agenda against bjp-modi-varun on behalf of congress.

vir and ht will point to bjp and hindus falsely in jhabua,knataka church bombings,drumbeat falsehood against hindus in orissa,gujarat, etc and accuse modi and bjp falsely but will hide facts about themselves.

Sanjay said...

Swapanda,
If bjp spends even a fraction of the time it spends in delving on stratospheric subjects like ideology and defining hindutva on something more down to earth like mission, they may have got an answer by now.

sanjay said...

Swapanda,
If bjp spends even a fraction of the time it spends in delving on stratospheric subjects like ideology and defining hindutva on something more down to earth like mission, they may have got an answer by now.

Anonymous said...

Until Gen-Next leaders put party's interest above self, there is no solution to problem being faced by BJP! And, we do not see any such sign among any of them! All of them all little (wo)men - ALL.

Sanjay said...

Swapanda,

BJP speakers cut a sorry figure. They seem to think that they will be asked the same questions which media puts to the congress and come only prepared for them, like “what do you think about the similarity of your nose size with that of narasimha rao’s?”. These type of questions are only for a select few even in the establishment, let alone outside of it. Even regional politicians don’t have such illusions. They even think they will get more than 10 seconds of free speech without being interrupted and shred to pieces by the bimbos.

Anonymous said...

I used to have a high opinion of both Arun Jaitley and Shourie. Shourie has extremely high credibility in my opinion, and therefore if he is making a charge against Jaitley one is willing to believe that. If it is indeed true that Jaitley was indulging in media leaks to form a grip over the party, he has done as much disservice as anyone else. Very sad.

Pranav said...

It appears that the National Executive meeting has been an unmitigated disaster, with absolutely none of the substantive issues having been addressed.

LK Advani has not accounted for the mishandling of the Varun Gandhi episode, nor has Jaitley accounted for the mishandling of the mishandling of the cash-for-votes sting operation. If the video recording of the bribery was handed over to foreign-owned pro-Congress media, then it reeks of a sinister sabotage. Govindacharya, in his Telhelka interview does make one valid point - LK Advani's tenure as home minister was no more distinguished than that of Shivraj Patil.

Shourie, I think has correctly identified the crux of the problem - the BJP is controlled by a secretive, unaccountable and corrupt clique. Just recall the reports of how Brajesh Mishra intervened to get Rahul Gandhi off the hook when he was arrested in Boston in the company of his girlfriend with a huge amount of cash. Also recall how the pilots in the Purulia arms drop case were let off by the NDA govt without any public accountability.

So what is the solution? Difficult to say. India lacks a nationalistic political force. Can Modi and Shourie become the nucleus of a new nationalistic party??

india15august.blogspot.com said...

Right on target. Just to highlight the importance of your blog, I have a TV interview at 9:20 AM for which I need at least 90 minutes of preparation. But the first act on my computer is to check if you have new post.

Your comments section is a gold mine for ideas and thoughts. If the BJP leadership is searching for gold, they should read it religiously (no pun intended).

A link given for an article by TVR shenoy defines Hindutva as it should be used politically. Go Green (ecology), be fair and just, stay with the poor and middle class, do not stand any rubbish (by anyone!). Is this so difficult to understand?

Meanwhile, all readers must ponder on the next action. We have to do something for the BJP instead of just writing.

No Mist said...

it will probably be too early to say that all is well ... there will be more churning in days and weeks to come ... it is important to keep the debate alive and the 'thinking aloud' going on ... we need more letters, pamphlets, communication from everybody in the party ... their views on defeat and rejuvenation ... a debate completely open ... without malice .. well there will some bitterness, but it is important not to hit below the belt ...

but the most important task currently would be to keep the party intact ... if resignations from the party membership starts there is not hope for BJP ... one resignation and it would start a chain reaction of people leaving the party ... so despite all the differences all must agree that they have to stick together ... and it is on this count that I am not very hopeful ...

it is good that Advani is conducting a nation wide meet with BJP members ... it would be ideal if BJP conducts a open election for the party president in which all BJP supporters could vote ... and I would also like to vote in this election ... is it possible ???

Swabhimaan said...

I am happy that the BJP has acknowledged problems and hope that it will stick to its resolve esp. on the Hindutva issue. All the best BJP!

rone said...

it is heartning to know that some resemblance of normalcy have been acheived in the BJP.But am deeply disapointed that no road map to the future has been unveiled.
Abscence of Arun jaitley was a bad signal which should have been avoided.I have the deepest admiration,like you of sri Arun jaitley and do beleive a man of his intellect and integrity can and should lead BJP and this country in the near futrure.
But AJ avoiding the meeting was a terrible mistake in his part.Considering that he was the man in charge of elctions it was his duty to present the report on the election to the executive. He should have attended and faced the brickbats,accept genuine criticism and counter the false ones.
Futher, now as he is opposition leader of the Rajyasabha he should have consulted others in the meet the strategy to be adopted in the parliment.

I read in one of your earlier posts that AJ is up to his neck and pretty successfull in law and cricket is quiet capable of taking rigid personal stand.
But it will be bad for BJP and this country if he dosnot give BJP his prime attention.
On hindsight I feel his sulking on two other occassions also dameged party and him/his image.
1.He should not have passed the offer to lead the party in the Delhi election.that would have brought a whole new segment of population especialy youth to the party.I saw you on TV at that time commenting AJ was meant for bigger things.But first one has to fight the battle at hand then only can fight the big one.
2.Rajnath singh /sudanshu mittal row.Though it was the media that played up this non issue big and made BJP look like a house divided, at the middle of a campaign a wise man like Arun jaitley should have avoided this.AJ,considering he was in charge of the elections, should have made his points behind closed doors. But,he not attending those cruoocial election commitee meetings damaged the paroty.
So AJ should stop sulking like a chid and be a man, get in the ground and play.We expect big things from him.

Anonymous said...

An interesting article from Statesman

http://www.thestatesman.net/page.news.php?clid=4&theme=&usrsess=1&id=258560

Anonymous said...

Your optimism seems unwarranted.

Arun Shourie/Jaswant Singh/Yashwant Sinha are rightfully upset and an 85 year old has responded.
This is sadly the story of BJP, lately.

There was a sharp slap in 2004 and no one did anything, a sharp rebuke in 2009 and still nothing.

A Political party can have secrets BUT a Political party cannot be secretive in its conduct. It is a death knell in a democracy...

Anonymous said...

The pictures are shameful. The BJP should protest loudly with these pictures.

http://sick-ularnews.blogspot.com/2009/06/blog-post_20.html

Balaji said...

Swapanda,

Would you like to respond to Vinod Mehta's characterization of you as a careerist. The readers of this blog know that you have been doing just that.

According to you,

1. Atalji was a man of vengeance who got you fired from India Today and awarded Padmas to Aroon Purie and Prabhu Chawla.
2. You are not part of Advani's coterie and hence not responsible for his disasters.
3. Rajnath Singh is the saboteur in chief.
4. Yashwant Sinha is a hypocrite.
5. Sudheendra Kulkarni is economical with the truth.

But,

1. Narendra Modi, the mass murderer, is gonna emerge as the darling of the masses.
2. Curious silence on Arun Jaitley's omissions and commissions.

We all know that you pass on what Arun Jaitley wants to convey to lesser mortals like us. And he ofcourse is a night-watchman or rather just watchman for Narendra Modi. So I guess Vinod Mehta calling you a careerist, is right in order, no?

Anonymous said...

Swapan da , Do you get the feeling that the dissidents like Jaswant Yaswant and Shourie got sidelined finally.

None of these guys have any real political standing and they are creating a ruckus because they don't want Jaitley to rise in the party.

Deepak said...

Swapanda, the meeting was indeed good. But it brought out the split in the party into the open. And most of the common folks, the voters, are not amused. Good that the letter writers, none of whom, are massbased politicians were shown their place. But the letter writers have raised a couple of points, especially w.r.t the continuance of Rajnath singh. The man accepted responsibility, but what is the use, when he is not ready to even offer his resignation. Probable he knows that if he offers it, will be immediately accepted.
Lets hope that the party will put behind the bad days and concentrate on re-building the party.

Anonymous said...

Swapan da,
These days you are being too partial to Jaitley in a very obvious way. As a fan I wish you be more objective and not take sides

Oldtimer said...

Dear Swapan,

A couple of statements attributed to Shourie that appeared in the media over the past couple of days are quite disconcerting. For some of us middle-class BJP supporters, Shourie is the most respected and credible face of BJP. Indeed, the BJP is good for us because it is good enough for him.

Media reports say that he said that the party was taken over by "conspirators" and that it was being run by six journalists. It is also hinted that he was unhappy with Jaitley's handling of the elections.

If these reports are true, then they are a matter of concern. Couple that with the reaction of Mr Jaitley and his friends (including you) right since the election results started pouring in. The focus has been on putting the blame on "extremism" and "Hindutva". I did not read much into Jaitley's analysis initially, but let's take another look at it. For him to draw any link between BJP's poll debacle and "extremism" is like the CEO of a failed company offering advice on what went wrong with the company's strategy. (He is expected to quit, for chrissakes). You echoed the same line ans so did Sudheendra Kulkarni, whose articulation could easily be mistaken for a Congress or Leftwing hack's. Is it just coincidence that all those on Mr Jaitley's side think more or less the same way?

So here's the question: If Mr Jaitley thought that fringe elements are impacting BJP's poll prospects, why did he not call it out early? Doing so after polls smacks of hunting for scapegoats, lest he should be held accountable for the debacle.

I hope media reports are wrong, and hence, so is my analysis. But at least on one count the reports seem credible. They also say that Shourie said that the leaks to the media that are happening from the party's top echelons need to be plugged. Indeed, why does the BJP leak like a sieve, and that too to a pack of media entities whose political loyalties are well-known?

Anonymous said...

Swapanda,

Surely, BJP has gone more than half-way in meeting it's well meaning critics (like you). That itself in a very large way distinguishes BJP from any other political party in the nation. BJP is definitely here to stay in meaningful and evolutionary politics.

It is also important that fundamental questions such as "What is hindutva?" which had acquired and assumed a seeming self-evidence, when actually asked won't produce easy answers. This is not to be misconstrued as "identity confusion" as the biased media would have it. But it is the nature of the subject which brings upon the difficulty to define, articulate something that is lived day in day out by crores of men and women in this country. For life and ways of life cannot be bound by simple definitions or in few words. That in itself is a testimony to prove that Hindutva is undoubtedly a way of life.

The reconcilation with political Hindutva and the hindutva outside its realms can happen only when the party puts every contentious issue to this test: "What is righteous than the "right"?"

It is unfortunate, as the recent results would have us believe, that the 'pseudo secularism' has not sinked in among many hindus and minorities of this country and the extreme harm it causes particularly to the minorities and to the nation as a whole. BJP needs to now strategise and bring a fresh perspective in confronting the dangerous pseudo secularism practised by Congress and others which is pushing the otherwise tolerant Hindus to intolerance.

2009 election results also showed that be it hindu or muslim or any other community do not vote based on identity unless they feel immediately threatened or unreasonably labelled negatively. If the minorities are made to believe by the pseudo-secularists that they are in a permanent state of threat , BJP needs to go an extra mile in disproving them, and this is not to be looked upon as appeasement, as the right-wing extremists tend to conclude.

india15august.blogspot.com said...

Ram Srinivasan says he attended a sppech by Arun Shourie and found it to be extremely negative.

Well, I had the same experience in Delhi. I went to listen to his speech on :"Swiss Bank accounts...." and he spoke about this subejct for about one minute (confessed he did not know much about it). Then he started off on Bofors, for 45 minutes.

That put me off. I had a lot of regard for Arun Shourie but I do think he is an armchair politician. We need people who get votes.

For Arun Jaitley, I am a big fan. But, the fact remains if he was managing the election, then he should have taken responsibility for the debacle.

Soemtimes, I wonder about the BJP leadership: is sacrifice so difficult?

Prasanna said...

Swapanda

As Oldtimer points out,its pretty disappointing to note that someone of Arun Shourie's imminence and stature is getting reduced to level of factional player in BJP's internal intrigues.I for instance graviated ideologically becuase of Dr Shourie- was ireversably altered by his intellectual firepower.It was much later that you burst on in to the scence and you took over the right wing mindshare in India.Shourie also grew little bitter and too vitrolic during last few years

I hope that Arun Jaitley(who i feel has a lot to contribute and consider possible successor to Advani)
gets all issues sorted with Arun Shourie.Atleast do not use the media to score points against each other

Where is the spirit of camaraderie that marked their association when the pursued the corrupt Bofors deal with all the vigour

It would be a shame if these two stalwarts reduce themselves as political pygmies

Shankar Iyer said...

Modi's silence is indeed mysterious. He appears to be a rock! He alone would emerge as the clearest thinker in all this, am wishing.

In a TV interview you said , 'the letter writers' do not run the party. True, but believe me, when someone asks me why i (ordinary citizen) support or follow BJP, one of the prominent reasons is because of clear headed , trustworthy men , guide and true nationalists like Arun Shourie, and am sure there are many many young people like me who share this view.

Vaibhav said...

I would advise people to be patient and not hostile to Swapanda or the BJP. Had things been so simple and Indian subconscious so receptive to nationalism, India would not have been a slave first to Muslims and then to British in the first place.
The ostrich mentality is deep. People love to hear that there is no problem. Just consider Rahul Gandhi's 15 minute solution to terrorism - empower the villagers, and the editorial crowd goes wild. Wow what a solution.

Swabhimaan said...

The National Executive meet & the Party President may not have addressed all issues....but it did address one important issue - the form of Hindutva we don't want. It may or may not affect poll results..but should everything be seen with an eye on polls & power? I don't think so. We also have to think about right and wrong. If BJP and the Sangh stick to what Rajnath Singh said, I as a volunteer will have a lot less explaining to do. I thank the party for this. Ofcourse, more measures are required..and internal party democracy is one of the most important things among these.

Anonymous said...

Every successful party organization needs a father figure leader who is the first amongst equals, gives broad direction/guidance and can exert some authority. Sonia, Lalu, Thackrey, Karunanidhi etc play that role in their party organizations. You cannot have a free-for-all in a party like whats going on in BJP currently.

Vajpayee played that role in BJP earlier and Advani should have - except RSS and others opportunists destryed his authority after Jinnah speech.

Now Singh, Yashwant and Shourie are busy playing destroyers (for personal reasons or benefit I presume). I had a very high regard for Arun Shourie but find his stand on Nuclear treaty and now personal attacks on Jaitly/ Advani/ kulkarni perplexing.

I still feel Advani should be given authority and allowed to play father-figure and Modi should be brought-iin as operational chief.

BJP_supporter said...

Oldtimer, on Shourie, you said what was in my mind exactly and I did not want to say it. Mainly because I did not see any point in saying it on this blog.

sundar said...

Old timer's questions need to be answered Mr. Swapan Das Gupta and Balaji's Labels are to be ignored

rone said...

Though Yashwant sinha has resigned from the party posts,he should have been invited and given the opportunity to present his views before the national executive.This would have strenghtened internal democracy.

Anonymous said...

Dear Swapan Da,
I've been an admirer of your writing. But, your recent writing seems to convey an overt sense of Arun Jaitly support. I believe that, BJP needs a good face to handle the Media. The face could be Mr. Arun Jaitly.

But, let us face it, It does make sense if people ask Arun Jaitly to resign since, on the question of accountability , he was
a) Chief Media Manager
b) Chief strategist.

I dont mind Yashwant Sinha's mail about taking responsibility and resigning from all posts in the party. This would show BJP as a party with a difference.

The debacle has been a major one. It is time to show 'Collective responsibility' and resign collectively. This so-called democratic war of words is being used by your opponents in the Media to tar you badly.

Take a stand stick by it. If everyone in Advaniji's set resign this will force others to do the same.

You guys could make it as a sign of 'Collective afterthought'.

Anonymous said...

Here is an interesting adit on EVM in today's NY Times. There is a possibilty of limited rigging:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/22/opinion/22mon2.html

mpanj said...

@Balaji,

your rants against NaMo continue.

I had sent you a plethora of links and data points to prove NaMo's unparalleled success as a Leader and manager on ‘Offstumped’. As always you failed to counter these and came back with your usual name calling (masquerading as political analysis).

Did you know (and I dont have a link for this) that your beloved Congress Govt. in Maharastra is about to implement one of Modi's most successful schemes - Girl Child education.

I guess imitation is the best form of flattery.

Get this: There is no alternative to NaMo. NaMo is the answer.

Your Sushmaji is a talker at best with no proven track record of any kind. Governance, Political management, mass movements, etc.

Anyone that goes hysterical and threatens to tonsure her head over a political issue is great leadership material? Give me a break.

I can see PM Sushmaji threatening Zardari - Stop this terrorism thing or else....

Anonymous said...

Here is interesting take on BJP from non-friendly quarters but very useful:

... party can decide to be a sophisticated nation-first meritocracy that accepts with grace and sense of historical detachment the empirical reality of India as multicultural nation-state while reserving right to reject the wholesale adoption of a policy of state based on the theory of multiculturalism, as the French have done. Or it can be forever fighting battles of the past. Just as long as it reaches either conclusion for itself, relevant to the country it aspires to govern and a world that rightly sets very little store by a self-proclaimed notion of exceptionalism that has very little to show for itself.
The morning glory guys in aunty shorts have to be given short shrift; not because they are sartorially embarrassing or they haven’t done back-breaking work for the public good as a volunteer force with a charter, but because it’s time for BJP to grow up and stop behaving like the typical Indian male child who refuses to leave the presumed comfort of home even though he is well into his 20s.
If it’s Hindutva that’s sticking point, surely Supreme Court’s “way of life” definition is the final word and Jaswant Singh’s sonorous but effective articulation of the concept as an all-encompassing civilisational rather than denominational framework is more than enough for a 21st century political party to stop searching for Indian nation’s navel and by implication its own ideological roots using RSS as a medium. And get on with looking for men and women of integrity, charisma and merit who can think for themselves.

- I Joshi in Statesman

Jaideep said...

isnt it a coincidence that the BJP's decline in the Lok Sabha elections in UP started after it put Ram Mandir, Art 370 and Uniform Civil Code on the backburner. It seems like the BJP instead of expanding its base has ended losing some of its hardcore supporters by compromising on ideological issues

aw said...

Hi Swapan,

I agree with your observation that confrontation results in clarity. I can understand your support for Arun Jaitley in the new BJP setup but there is no doubt that his new role has not evolved from introspection into the debacle and the new course BJP must take. His and Sushma Swaraj's appointment by Advani reeks of nepotism and is undemocratic. BJP must and should look for ways to make party setup more democratic. After all if Jaitley and Sushma Swaraj were appointed after winning support in a free election no one would dare protest. When there is nepotism there is bound to be reactions. As it stands now the two men, LKA with his bad decisions about the direction of the campaign and Jaitley being the general in charge must accept responsibility. If BJP's voice was shrill (as per Jaitley) then what did he do about it? Column inches in a newspaper after the fact does not cut it.

Another issue I have is about factionalism. I think it is a good thing that there are enough people in the BJP who can think and debate critical policy issues. Group-think in the CIA was declared the primary cause for embarrassment to the USA on Iraq2. Having pro-and anti Indo-US nuclear deal factions in the party is a good thing. Maybe Yashwant Sinha and the group he represents face near-extinction in the coming dispensation but again is that a considered view of the BJP? The opposition to the Nuclear deal was based on what I would consider a well documented and sophisticated analysis by Shourie in the Indian Express. But where was a equally robust rebuttal? If Jaitley had it in him he should have educated the public as well as BJP about why it was a good thing. After all he does write when he wants to. But Jaitley is no Shourie. And that is my problem with him. He comes across as passionless. His stand of opposing the deal-but not too much. It is better to support it then. [BTW I have no real opinion on this either way. I just have not read anyone arguing in favour of the deal as Shourie argued against it]. Also it is important to remember that a person opposed on one issue could be an ally in another.

First BJP needs to have a clarity on what it wants to do. Argue it out, debate over but settle on a stand that is conveyed to all. Issues in the public domain drive the debates but a well prepared party can also articulate and convey to people its stand with clarity. On the Indo-US deal one suspects there was no intellectual horse power available to the pro-deal side and were forced to follow the anti-us line that was well articulated. One of the biggest debates the BJP needs to have is about the economic direction the party supports.

I think generational change is about openness to ideas and issues that are contemporary, as also the mechanics of addressing them.It is not only chronological age.

Regards

Atul

hUmDiNgEr said...

Dear Swapan,

I don't understand what the meeting has achieved in the end.For someone like me, the only honest and nationalist politician in India is Arun Shourie. If he says something, it has very high credibility because the man has no vested interests and doesn't pursue agendas.
If some of the BJP supporters celebrate the sidelining of Shourie, I think the party with difference is dead and it has long become a B-team of Congress.

BJP_supporter said...

1. The operative parts of the two day meet were a) Advaniji going on Yet Another Yatra (YAY!!), and b) formation of a secret committee that will work in secret and produce a secretive result. Cheers everyone.

2. Ram - did Shourie attack the government using facts and stats, or did he use invectives? How does an opposition party run its campaign without attacking the government's record in governance? If attacking the government is such a bad idea, why did Jaitley attack both the PM and Rahul after four phases of campaigning were over? http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ae1249b2-405f-11de-8f18-00144feabdc0.html?nclick_check=1

3. The raking up of Hindutva will produce a very predictable reaction from most in the BJP. This will deflect any attempt at analyzing the actual results and identifying the failures. That has happened. Those who ran the campaign and do not want any attention drawn to the failures get away. Many others who might have attacked those who ran the campaign are left to attack the 'sacrilege' on Hindutva instead. Perfect red herring. Those few in the middle who do not fall for the trap with the H word try to say something about the actual results and how it came about, and they get shooed away. How convenient!

mpanj said...

Folks,

please dont club Arun Shourie with other 'letter writers' and run-of-the-mill politicians.

He is a true patriot who has repeatedly gone up against the most powerful and corrupt titans in our land. He as suffered immensely.

Did you know that his primary source of income is through the books he writes (and now) self-publishes.

He could have been another skirt-chasing editor, enjoying his single malt and vacationing in Zurich. But he opted to serve his nation.

So please stop this mud slinging. He may have called Arun Jaitley out and I have respect for both these individuals - but Shourieji's opposition is issue based.

If we silence true patriots like him, what are we left with - 'pragmatic' tentwalas?

Anonymous said...

Balaji, I do not know if you have followed Vinod Mehta. This apology of a human being shedding tears for the BJP is worse than a wolf crying over the death of a sheep. Please do no insult people's intelligence out here.

Jaideep said...

exactly my thoughts Atul. On the nuclear deal issue I have yet to see a point by point rebuttal of Shouries position by anyone either within the BJP or outside. The closest one came to was C Raja Mohan's articles in the Indian Express. But even there Shourie rebutted each of Raja Mohan's points very well. To reduce the nuclear deal to a for or against issue without going into its complexities is being very naive. This is not to say that the middle class were not turned off by the BJP's stand on the deal. That might well be the case but to support a major foriegn policy issue based on electoral consideration is pure opportunism

mpanj said...

One more point to ponder.

We all recognize that just as Congress' victory can be attributed to a combination of factors, BJP's defeat can be attributed to a combination of factors.

These are not mirror images of each other.

Yes there were some areas of overlap, but if we try to create a right-of-center Congress, we will fail miserably.

Example: The reason NaMo fits the bill so well, is that he provides the perfect contrast sans the shrillness of a Togadia or Muthalik.

Congress = Corrupt, self-serving, Family first, Power hungry, vote bank promoting.

BJP Should = Corruption free, Selfless, Country first, strong on national security, foresighted and Law abiding.

Think of this as a Swayamvar with Indian Electorate being the bride and Political parties the prospective grooms.

One way to go is to highlight the negatives of your competitors.

The other is to present yourself through words, actions and deeds as the best candidate to serve mother India.

I would say the latter option presents a better template.

Create this template, ensure compliance with it across all BJP units and watch the voters come back.

No need for rants against Sonia and her progeny or the extended psec family.

This strategy also ensures our biased media wont be able to easily ensare BJP in an unending cycle of defensive postures.

BJP_supporter said...

A flippant and motivated dismissal of Shourie in the post got some good spirited response from readers. I kept thinking I should not comment, but that brought me back.

To someone who said Shourie does not have base, read some of the comments here to see the base that man built. And what exactly is Jaitley's 'base'? Read Jaitley's wikipedia entry to see a man careful to claim all success and erase any trace of a failure.

The party had a psephologist-led strategy for this election. There was supposed to be 300 seats that the party focussed on because of its lack of base in large parts of India. Where is the analysis of this strategy? Did that strategy fail only because of Varun Gandhi? But then the psephologist came on TV a day before counting and claimed his numbers showed him 166 for the BJP! How come nobody is asking questions around these?

Anonymous said...

Swapan harbors hatred for Arun Shourie b'coz Shourie is more intellectual than him. There is no other reason why one would target a man like Shourie who is favourite of 90% BJP voters. Who is Swapan ? A poor writer who gets small corner space once in a week or fortnight in toilet dailies ?

BJP_supporter said...

anonymous calling names (jun 22 10:37 PM) - that is a sure way to get derailed, just like how the 'hindutva' red herring was very successfully used to derail any attempt at a rational analysis of election strategy and results. Please try to do better, particularly if you admire Shourie because you have read him. I have read the other Shourie admirers comment here and they have not used such language, and hence your comment also makes me suspect your real motive.

Lexputin said...

The debate initiated by you has certainly paid dividends & it is no doubt a good start to have had the national executive end on a positive note. However, I have to agree with Offstumped on the level of expectations.

The urge to maintain status quo, as had hurt the party in 2004 is something I am weary of. And mind you I'm not suggesting any wholesale changes (though they're required); compulsions of the realities of politics being given their due.

The very fact that many a party supporters need you to decipher the message from the National Exec says a lot, of the little distance to which the party had traveled in the game of perceptions; a game though not the be all & end all of politics , but one of its vital elements, as we have all discovered (and you've rightly noted more than once) in many an election.

Apart from the process of defining the contours of Hindutva, whether as a matter of semantics or policy, the party must more importantly work towards creating the right perceptions in the fence sitting youth of India and also the firm subscribers of right of centre politics who are, at this moment, without doubt disillusioned.

Looking forward in hope to Mr. Jaitley & the team that is to take over in Dec.

As for journalists running the party, it's high time we stop being apologetic of a party's think tank getting due & formal recognition. Isn't it better than astrologers running a party ? :)

Tathagata Mukherjee said...

Double bias of media:

http://www.assamtribune.com/scripts/details.asp?id=jun2309/State3

Conversion bid by armed men resented

Swapan'da- I want your categorical comment on this news from a leading media from Assam- The Assam Tribune. Why no national media writes about these things happening? What is mentioned here reminds medieval ages.

Also, see the close relation of Congress coming to power in Mizoram and these terrorists now attacking important religious shrines.

Are Hindus of Silchar second class citizen in India?

No wonder, if these things don't stop, sooner or later things will go out of control much like Kandhamal in Orissa.

Balaji said...

Lets even assume that Modi did not instigate and conspire to kill Muslims in Gujarat. But if he is an able administrator like some guys proclaim, wonder who wants to live under a chief minister who cannot save some 2000 citizens in his own state. Even Shivraj Patil cannot be accused of such incompetence.

if this election has conveyed anything, then its that people are not gonna reward development if its accompanied by bigotry. people wud rather eat grass than the cake tainted with Muslim blood.

karthik said...

Swapanda,

Please come out with some cogent views on Arun Jaitley's skipping the meet.I mean I always thought you were the most equanimous when it comes to criticism and thats why all of us have been staunch admirers of you.Because its increasingly looking like Yaswant Sinha and the ilk are unnecessarily made to look greedy when their career speaks otherwise.So please,next time provide us with some inputs on why the party's chief campaign strategist has missed a premier party meeting,especially given that he could be the next president.As an aside,you were simply superb in one of the NDTV specials wehre Neerja Choudhary was also thr.More power to you!Jai Hind!

Anonymous said...

What exactly Arun Shourie spoke? In the blog you say it was "excessively personalised and contained some pretty incredible charges".

Then in the twitter you say "Shourie lowered the tone of his critique of BJP"

Kind of confused. Can you please explain?


In twitter you also say his "legitimate points were lost" . What are they?


When you say he influenced no one in BJP, do you mean this particular meeting or BJP in general?


A genuine debate between you & Arun Shourie would help in understanding the steps for way forward.

Regards,

ashwani said...

for people marketing inclusivity including swapan i post the following.

does inclusivity mean:

1.permanent destituion of kashmiri pandits.
2.permanent disenfranchisement of displaced persons in jammu.
3.permanent ill treatment to jammu & laddakh regions.
4.waiting till the bangladeshis &local muslims alter the population balance in the country to the extent that hindus have to face the dawat e islam as fait accompli.
5.teaching children falsehoods like equality of religions,virtues of islamic tyrants and islam while denigrating the divine vedic culture in the most untruthfull and scurrillous way,so that within a generation the whole populace invites islamic hoods as saviours.

for the sake of arguement let's keep it till that.now will swapan and his co thinkers point out as to where did the bjp act in a manner so as to be non inclusive by trying to rectify these faultlines.if these were the basic mininum required for the inclusivity certification what else is required?.pls list your wishes.

now let us take up the arguement that the bjp lost because of'hate speeches'& hooliganistic actions(ram sene).
1.in pilibhit varun gandhi won inspite of it being a muslim dominated area and a pretty united opposition.
2.in mangalore & bangalore the bjp performance was excellent.

so it seems that hate mongers performed in the area where people love to hate and the hooligans performaed well in the areas people love hooliganism.and the knowalls know that the party lost in the rest of the country because the rest of the country disproves of these behaviours.

how about the alternate explanation that in the rest of the country the people just didnot feel that their local candidate was not of the same calibre as candidates in the 'bad areas'.

before you jump at me for being the supporter of beating woemen let me say that though i am not so,surely the point they were raising about promiscuous drinking in teenagers and sub-teenagers touched the cord in people of the area.

regarding the hate speech if saying that one will cut the hands of rapists & eve teasers is hate speech pls. dont raise your voices when you see such acts being commited on your near and dear ones.

charuvak said...

>inclusive Hindutva
What was Hindutva all about so far, was it not inclusive and civilizational?

>programs to woo minority votes

Pray, enlighten me to as to why a party considered to be nationalistic and which strongly subscribes to 'justice for all and appeasement of none' have a program to 'woo minorities' ?

It begs the question, does BJP think, as of now, that minorities are different and that they need wooing ?

This I can tell you is a slippery slope argument. If BJP goes down this path it will never recover. It will be another Congress-B team.

As a voter, if I wanted a Congress why should I settle for the 'B' team ?

ashwani said...

for people marketing inclusivity including swapan i post the following.

does inclusivity mean:

1.permanent destituion of kashmiri pandits.
2.permanent disenfranchisement of displaced persons in jammu.
3.permanent ill treatment to jammu & laddakh regions.
4.waiting till the bangladeshis &local muslims alter the population balance in the country to the extent that hindus have to

face the dawat e islam as fait accompli.
5.teaching children falsehoods like equality of religions,virtues of islamic tyrants and islam while denigrating the divine

vedic culture in the most untruthfull and scurrillous way,so that within a generation the whole populace invites islamic

hoods as saviours.

for the sake of arguement let's keep it till that.now will swapan and his co thinkers point out as to where did the bjp act

in a manner so as to be non inclusive by trying to rectify these faultlines.if these were the basic mininum required for the

inclusivity certification what else is required?.pls list your wishes.

now let us take up the arguement that the bjp lost because of'hate speeches'& hooliganistic actions(ram sene).
1.in pilibhit varun gandhi won inspite of it being a muslim dominated area and a pretty united opposition.
2.in mangalore & bangalore the bjp performance was excellent.

so it seems that hate mongers performed in the area where people love to hate and the hooligans performaed well in the areas

people love hooliganism.and the knowalls know that the party lost in the rest of the country because the rest of the country

disproves of these behaviours.

how about the alternate explanation that in the rest of the country the people just didnot feel that their local candidate

was not of the same calibre as candidates in the 'bad areas'.

before you jump at me for being the supporter of beating woemen let me say that though i am not so,surely the point they were

raising about promiscuous drinking in teenagers and sub-teenagers touched the cord in people of the area.

regarding the hate speech if saying that one will cut the hands of rapists & eve teasers is hate speech pls. dont raise your

voices when you see such acts being commited on your near and dear ones.

Anonymous said...

dear sd
as cong. has serious irrepairable inherent limitations to explore potential of india and indians,we are trying for better leaders better parties.in the said bjp meet hardly necessary happened which can aspire indians to promote bjp as a better and promising party.which issues(there were more than enough)should have been raised,by which leaders ,at what platforms,to convincemasses is not discussed.whether it wasproper andaspiring to stake future of india andwhole bjps valuable five years for the merritless greed of lka is not found necessary to discuss.bjp alsoseems to be playing in the hands of few merritless powerbrokers,who have tried to maintain their holds on brand and resources of bjp in which indians hardly can have any interests.corruption through mms and cong. giving details should have been a major issue keeping india poor.some such mms and cong.frauds have been repeatedly and rightly listed on this blog by informed commentators which bjp failed to explore properly.masses should be explained how tax resourses could not reach them due to corruption of cong. keeping them poor anddeprived them of possible basic needsin their life instead of making corruption a non issue.i am told that bjps top leaders due to fear of cases and greeds of side benifits from cong. have diluted main issue of corruption during and after election .even atal and co. saved cong. from bofors.hardly masses know what is written in manifesto.masses should be explained from all platforms by all leaders(not only namo) based on what track records what relevant differences bjp will bring to the indians and how soon.bjp is facing a strong and more experienced competitor cong.hence cannot afford to believe that it can win by such adhoc andhalf hearted poll stetegies.a defeat is a rich experience should be encashed by neutral analysis and new convincing winning stretegy.

Anonymous said...

To talk about liberal/tolerant hindutva is like talking aboout the "good taliban" or a "liberal Islamist" etc. The BJP should instead discard the term hindutva altogether and sever ties with RSS. Or all the leaders who think that way should sever ties with BJP/RSS and start a new secular center-right party. That will at least salvage the bad name brought to hinduism by hindutva violent extremists.

Anonymous said...

from last blog

see how bjp-modi enemies like bunty types rampant in elmedia-mfia,congress and among minorities will not admit the truth about gujarat even if industrialist,crores of gujaratis and economic reports do

but strangely swapan a so called bjp guy will admit the falsehood that mms is honest despite all the facts to the contrary which happened and r true but media hides them and i have pointed out here
.

Anonymous said...

to the anon who sid

.A large section of the Hindu society does not even know about half of the things like CBSE = Madrasa education. The reason obviously is the media. So, unless they know about it..it is useless to discuss whether they vote for it or against it. These things don't affect them directly. But attitudes of Muthalik types affects them directly and the noise generated by the media around such issues is deafening. After the failure of the BJP to build the Ram Mandir (however justified the reason maybe), many Hindus have started looking at the Janmbhooomi issue, Varun speeches just as vote bank politics. Hence, the BJP needs to deliver something more. Modi can bring back quite a number of voters who deserted the BJP after the Mandir was dropped for coalition politics. This is what I can say from the discussions I have had with people.

I trust Swapanda when he says Varun's speech was ugly. But it could have been handled in a different way. The context could have been explained and Varun could have explained who exactly it was meant for (unless he didn't mean it for all of Muslims).

reply
right here u agrree with my point that the media is hiding cbse = madrasa and tasleema type muthaliks who are muslims who supprt action gainst tasleema and vote for congress.

on the other hand u say that hindus vote for congress because of muthaliks and varuns.if so ( i dont buy there are so many idiots among hindus,they are just lazy to vote unlike muslims who are fatwaed and religion is all)

but the few who did in the 28 % congress vote are ignorant and fools and the precise targets of the nedia to fool and fraud by 24-7 drumbeating by the congress mafia.

the fools dont dont see the irony nd dont know they are being taken by the congress owned media gangthey are voting for a party tht is appeasing the muslims fundoos thru tasleema and cbse madrasa.

anon,u are showing how the mafia disguised as media are controling even the discussions by filtering and spotlighting what suits them see how u are taken in by their campaign against muthalik and varun.

r u saying cbse = madrasa doesnt affect both muslims and hindus.are uneducated muslim women
good for the country ? arent they worse off than the women who cant drink alcohol with muslim9 or nonmuslim) men in mangalore.

man what idiocy.this is the bjp position.all are indians.and shahbano passed by congress is another eg of how congress is far less modern than bjp.

and what do u and swapan do.u hush up the tasleema shabano fundamntalism of congress and blame bjp for muthalik even if bjp contests against it.and for varun when all he said was that hindus ahve a right to dfeence.

and both issues were played up to sway people like u,swapan and ankan who now are blaming ugly hindus,varun and bjp for antiquated valueswhich is exactly what the media wants by filtering the news and dumbeating muthalik,varun bjp losing due to hindutava (which is actually just a intentional loaded almost pejorative word for patriotism) and husing up congress 's and elmedia-mafia cosying up to the so modern mullahs with cbse-madrasa and shahabano ,tasleema bashers.

so media shuld be congratulated on fooling people like u into blaming ugly hindus,varun and patriotism which their congress-mafia gang (in the pay of anti-hindu and anti-india forces worldwide want) and fools like u buy.have u ever though why is the media hiding the cbse=madrasa,tasleema ban congress type fundamntalism for the muslim vote.

if muslims vote for fundoos s congress knows and idiots vote against the bjp (because of self defence comments by varun) and the nonissue of frauds like muthalik and all playing drama for vote before elections staged by congress-tehelka-ndtv-toi-htibn all congress owned frauds.

Anonymous said...

post continued
to the anon who talked about cbse=madrasa not affecting us(post continued)instead of blaming media for hushing it up like they did tasleema -owasii beating her etc etc etc for congresssecularism glory

did u ever wonder why mdeia mafia did not comment or report hate speeches made by congress ap chief srinivas,kidwai,mautkesudagar sonia.becauese they r corrupt referees owned by congress and campaigning aginst bjp posing as neutral referees to fool gullibles like u ankan
who are now actually buying their aganeda aginst varun,hindutva,bjp like they do with modi.
their goal is to destroy varun,assertive hindus,patriotism and nonappaesemnt because this is their livelihood paid by islamic,conversionist and congress forces.ask teesta whre she gets her funds from and why media are so pally with her for the share.

Anonymous said...

ankan read my previous post to anon on varun,muthalik
but more importnatly on the topic that elmedia mafia have a hidden agenda that is swaying poele like u.
there is apoll on moneycontrol.com that shows varunleading 3 to 1 .

is not sceintific but shows that many hindus support him unlike a few ignorants swayed by media hype and ageneda and is definitely better than your media-mafia hyped brainwashed posts.

which is excatly what the mafia wanted to help congress.now they r celebrating with cthe congress swisss bank loot in some 5 star hotel
taht they conned people into anti-varun anti-hindutva agenda like they did in the anti-modi
agneda which is their main goal against assertve non appeasmnet hindus like bjp and selfdefence hindus liek varun-modi.

they dont want that to please their christian-muslim congress gang from where they get paid daily.

get it gullibles.so let the pandits go to hell and live without water and power with congress because hindus r idiots and cowarads as if one quality is not enough.

but the idiocy helps media fardus fool u on behalf of islamists and christians and commies.

god save india.u voted in congress eve after 60 yr misrule an dloot.

why because varun is the rael baddie.

why because the elmedia congress dogs bark everyday and u get led by those dogs.

i am ashamed to be an hindu.only hindus are capable of such qualities with traitors like elmedia guys a dme a dozen aamong them.

the monorities are united and dont care about ugly christians and ugly muslims and swapan will not get any article accepted in elmafia

mpanj said...

Folks,

Much like BJP allowed it's opponents to define the electoral (and larger social) agenda, we're allowing the same opponents to define its future - soft, inclusive, Modi, no Modi, etc.

Have we framed the question incorrectly. Can we instead frame it this way:

What if BJP withdraws from the political space. Can it still serve Mother India. If so how?

How would this abdication hurt or help India.

Is there anyway BJP’s leadership can demonstrate its commitment to the nation through genuine work, out in the field.

I have no clue.

Suggestion:

Instead of withdrawing RSS pracharaks from BJP structures, would it help to turn all BJP officers and foot soldiers into political pracharaks.

Follow the Sangh’s creed of selfless service for the next 3 years. No TV appearances, no name calling, no strategizing, no politicking.

Hit the pavement and reach out to your voters. On a daily basis. Listen and where possible use RSS’ network to solve problems – every day problems – education, water, etc.

The benefits would be endless, with very little downside. For starters, we could (partially) circumvent the pro-Congress media.

Go back to basics.

Sanjay said...

Swapanda,

The power that be in BJP’s biggest mistake was to elect Rajnath Singh as the party president. What are his credentials? What are his achievements as a leader? He doesn’t inspire any confidence, he could not even control the proceedings of the post-debacle-national-executive-meet. It took an inspired speech of Sunderlal Patwa to bring the meeting on track. His election points towards the quality of decisions being taken for and by the BJP particularly in the past few years. And this, after having some of the most successful people in its ranks, even “Prabhu Chawla” has written in India Today ”The combined credibility of these comparatively young, successful chief ministers can be a formidable threat to the congress which has none to match them.”
Now what excuse can you have if you have all the right cards with you, and you still get routed.

Swabhimaan said...

I support mpanj's views on Arun Shourie. Swapan, why should all dissidence to be looked down at? Why have this blog then? We expect you to be impartial and objective.

Anonymous said...

Swapanda, can u please confirm this???

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_modi-heading-for-key-bjp-post_1267628

Anonymous said...

"I think the provocative debate this blog hosted has yielded some returns. It is important to keep up this supportive but uninhibited watch-dog role."

Swapanda, do u mean the BJP leadership is going thru' your blog regularly??

Even in this post in lkadvani.in forum

http://www.lkadvani.in/forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=6043

Moderator is saying that Rajnath Singh's speech had inputs from this forum!! He also goes on to say that Media also has taken note of the discussions going on there about the media!!

I wonder why they are still going on with their BJP bashing agenda.. I would say stop participating in any debates or discussions on NDTV so that others get the message ( u dont have to make a public announcement about this)..

Someone also in a comment(previous post) noted that Nalin Kohli had no answer to one of the 'tough' question the anchor asked on a hindi news channel.. if that person is reading this comment, could u please tell us what was the question???

Anonymous said...

I found it funny Swapan approvingly quoting Sunder Lal Patwa. BJP lost MP elections twice when he was CM. He did his best to promote factionalism in MP BJP and fight his factional wars thru Shikhandis, something Arun Jaitley has developed into fine art. Someone made light of Sushama but she was always willing to do whatever party asked her - Delhi CM, run against Sonia in Karnataka, run for LS - even if that meant political setback, something we can not say about Jaitley. Finally, a true leader is one who takes moral responsibilty - someone like Golda Meir who resigned after the 1973 war though Israel was a winner in that war. Only cowards and backroom manipulators use their media contact to run away from owning responsibility. Jaitley totally fails on that count.

Anonymous said...

if people are indeed unhappy with Yeddyurappa, its not a good sign.. they still have 4 more years, hope they do better!!

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Bangalore/Varthur-says-goodbye-to-BJP/articleshow/4689416.cms

Anonymous said...

OK. Let's make Jaswant, Yashwant and Shourie in charge of elections in Maharashtra, Jharkhand and Haryana.

Let's see what they can come up with. As they say empty vessels make the most noise. That is what these guys are doing.

It is so easy to criticise. All of this is Rajnath inspired move to scuttle Arun Jaitley's chance of becoming party president.

Since when have Jaswant, yashwant and Shourie have become such big leaders. People like Shivraj Chauhan, Sushil Modi etc have a different take while these geat leaders are asking for accountability.

Why did Jaswant Singh become a minister when he lost polls in 1999. Why he not hold himself accountable and decide not to become a minister.

If Rajnath Singh is taking responsibility, why is he not resigning.

Anonymous said...

Gentlemen,
Let us not turn this into Shourie vs. Jaitly war?
I think they are both terrific and BJP needs both.

BJP is into problems because, unlike earlier, the current election analysis is being turned into petty, egotistical personality conflicts and no magnanimity is being shown by the big names.
If this does not stop, they should all be sacked and a new team take over, take some tough decisions and rebuild BJP

Swabhimaan said...

Anonymous @ 6.18 AM

I agree with most of what you are saying. The media is a big problem. I am not saying that people voted against the BJP because of Muthalik, but they do talk about it in a negative way. They did associate Varun with the BJP in a negative way. Those who voted for the Congress in Delhi had already decided to do so before these things happened. That is for sure. There are also people(educated ones included) from Karnataka who favour the BJP despite what happened there. These things may not affect poll results, but these act as distractions and take away the focus from real issues.

About Muslim women - they have been conditioned to accept injustices and hence won't respond so easily to calls of justice. The first question is - Are the BJP's words reaching them?

We don't fall easily for media's trap ...thanks to people like Tarun Vijay and Swapan but there is a huge crowd out there that doesn't even know these names. They don't follow politics like we are doing here. The media sets the agenda for their discussions and debates.


Inclusiveness - The BJP has been inclusive, though not the way the opposition has been..and we like BJP's inclusiveness..it should not be changed. I think these statements are being given now to kind of respond to the excuses that were created for BJP's performance.

One point here - many (incl. Swapan) are blaming the media for equating Varun with Modi. Didn't this start with one of the 'insiders'? You have your star campaigner working for you so hard ..and then you go out and pull him down later. Just stop this nonsense.

Who is to be held responsible if your elected candidates don't work for the people? Modi? Lots of people are crying for resignation of campaign managers...but do campaigns affect poll outcomes so significantly(unless there is a wave)? Ticket distribution is definitely an issue and those responsible for it need to mend their ways..owning up responsibility is not the complete solution.

Oldtimer said...

I think it will be good for both Mr Shourie and BJP if they part ways amicably. A BJP in opposition has nothing much to gain from him. Get him back when the party is back in government, and put him in charge of a key ministry. I doubt that Shourie is an "organization" man. Politics is the art of reconciling conflicting interests and he does not seem to be good at it, his approach rather being to speak his mind. He probably cannot even contest and win an LS election unless more charismatic campaigners (say, Modi) carry the day for him. Point is that he is not a politician.

As long as he is a member of the BJP, it is unlikely that he will voice criticism of the party publicly. BJP has a surfeit of hostile "critic"s, including even commie loons masquerading as its supporters. What it badly needs is a sympathetic critic who exercises influence over its educated constituency. Shourie fits the bill. Furthermore, as an independent writer, he will not be held back by realpolitik constraints such as having to a) toe the party line and b) be nice to the media.

At any rate, judging by the goings-on, it does not seem like he will be re-nominated to the RS in 2010 (I think, or maybe 2011).

Shankar Iyer said...

>>>> OK. Let's make Jaswant, Yashwant and Shourie in charge of elections in Maharashtra, Jharkhand and Haryana.Let's see what they can come up with.t is so easy to criticise.


You are grossly mistaken by narrowing down politics in to mere elections . What happens in 5 years between the elections is what is crucial and men like Arun Shourie play a decisive role then. They are the "opinion creators", to say the least, without which you and me wouldn't have a perspective on national affairs.

Please let us broaden our horizon when we are talking about men like Shourie who are beyond politicking, elections and power.

Anonymous said...

" On the nuclear deal issue I have yet to see a point by point rebuttal of Shouries position by anyone either within the BJP or outside."

exactly.. if no one was really able to understand what the issues were, then please dont send someone like Ravi Shankar Prasad fr TV debates.. the only point he was trying to make was india is surrounded by hostile countries, so we should have the right to do nuclear tests.. instead, send Shourie himself!!! Please make sure that you articulate ur stand to the people, it sends out a wrong signal otherwise..

Anonymous said...

"This strategy also ensures our biased media wont be able to easily ensare BJP in an unending cycle of defensive postures."

so true, when NaMo makes a 30-40 min speech all they could find in that was a 30 second part of "budhiya/gudiya"..

Anonymous said...

As usual, this has become an issue of individuals rather than ideas...it seems the BJP has become unmoored from its ideology so the only thing left is individuals and adoring worship or castagation.

On Modi: while the Gujarat massacre was abonimable, the Sabermati massacre was a spark that ignited madness. There was no such spark in Kashmir...why don't people want to hold Farooq Abdullah's feet to the fire...

Amazing the amnesia.

A political party must be able to convince the body politic to interpret events according to its ideology...but first you must have a consistent ideology. This lack prevents the BJP from conveying, in a compelling manner, the mismanagement and failures of the Congress govt.

Anonymous said...

"if this election has conveyed anything, then its that people are not gonna reward development if its accompanied by bigotry. people wud rather eat grass than the cake tainted with Muslim blood."

balaji, if u r trying to say that we didnot win even though Modi campaigned in so many constituencies, please keep in mind that if one speech could win a seat for you BJP would not have taken so long to come to power.. we had vajpayee right from the Jan Sangh days!!

and i think u r contradicting yourself when u say "development if its accompanied by bigotry" will not be rewarded.. i wonder how Modi still has an upper hand over congi

Anonymous said...

While duffers of Parviaar are busy settling scores, Congress Asurs - same people who unleashed Ram Sene and Muthalik to a devastating effect - are plotting to topple BJP govt in Karnataka. They will time it to occur just before state elctions in Maharashtra, Haryana and Jharkhand. Do we see anything proactive being done by BJP big-shots to prevent this from happening? I do not see any - prabhari of Karnatake is enjyoing life in Europe! We need a new party and new leaders. This lot is USELESS!

senthil said...

/** Arun Shourie's intervention in particular was excessively personalised and contained some pretty incredible charges. Maneka Gandhi too added some fanciful stuff about how funds were apportioned.
**/

I feel, the above statements reflects your position.. Can you pls elaborate on "Pretty incredible charges" by shourie.. or can you explain, how you termed as fanciful on maneka gandhi?

the phrases used here is inappropriate..

senthil said...

Arun shourie is being undermined in this blog post.. He is one of the rare leaders in BJP, with a shart intellectual strength, and who could articulate any subject with finer details..

Please read his excellent article on the same hindutva, long back, when the ELM vultures equated hindutva with talibanism..

Hindutva and radical Islam: Where the twain do meet
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/hindutva-and-radical-islam-where-the-twain-do-meet/254969/

I was greatly impressed by his article, and the way in which he contrasted radical islam with hinduism, his unapolegetic mode in dealing with hindutva, and also his clarity of thoughts and his excellent argument skills..

We people are inspired by leaders like him.. Only because of him, i made my opinions and thoughts on hindutva clearer..

Arun shouries is one of the gems that BJP has.. He may not be a mass leader.. But he is definitely an intellectual leader of the party, more than any one else.. (even advani dont have that much intellectual clarity, if we go by his debates or writings)

senthil said...

Swapan ji,

In one of your previous posts, you said that you compromised your career by supporting BJP during ayodhya movement..

It seems, you do not want to take that risk now..
Its evident from your use of hard words like "Ugly Hindu face", "Hate party" etc..

Are you aware, that you are losing the reader base from the hindutva circle, becuase of your shift in your position.. probably, you may have found a larger reader base at center or mild center right position..

I can only say, that the past few blog posts, doesnt click in a right sense, as you could see from many of the comments..

I am sorry, that i am moving away from an once an inspiring writer called "swapan das gupta".

j k said...

i do agree with you on the fact that the BJP meet ended in a positive note. Many leaders have emerged more prominent than Advaniji during the meeting, though his speech can heal some wounded BJP supporters. somebody has raised the question of roadmap to the future. If you can read between the lines its right there. A gag order is the need of the hour and should go further stating that all media appearance should be courteous and curtail, no more falling into the traps(i would personally prefer a complete absence though) Lets wait and see how your prediction of getting right in a year's time goes.

ashwani said...

first the situation as it exists today:
the rss as an organization has been utterly confused principally since it's inception.since they did not know the situation

of hindus w.r.t. muslims(bigger threat) & christians(lesser threat presently) due to a lack of knowledge about the driving

forces of these cruel religions namely quran:hadiths &bible.i would be thankfull if someone points to a study done by rss of

these threats.the same attitude of ignorance percolates to their cadres.the only quality inculcated in the cadre is

discipline.
the writings of hegdewar and golwalkar seemingly did not inform the cadre about the threats faced by the hindus from these

predatory religions but gave them some mumbo jumbo about nationalism to propogate, expecting the members of these hostile

communiies to reform themselves once they came into contact with the organisation.the physical training imparted to the

cadres may have been sufficient in early days but is certainly woefully inadequate for the present requirements.thus we have

a situation in which there exists within rss a cadre which can be called as robots.here i must ,mention some exceptions among

the cadre who through the sheer hardwork and intellect raised some organisations that are doing some good work on their own

like vanvasi parishad,ekal vdyalaya etc.but they are still not the required response to the current situation.

there are two kinds of people in politics today.they are
1.dhoorts(congis,mulayams,lalloos,paswans etc.)
2.moorkhs(bjp).

similarly within the bjp the same categorisation exists.
1.dhoorts{vajpayee(the biggest),advani(smaller)}.
2.some intelligent ones who are uninfluential at the moment(modi,shouri).
3.moorkhs the rest of the party.

the reason why bjp lost elections (in my view) are as follows:
the dhoort(vajpayee) of bjp misled the party and rss into believing that muslim sensibilities(their inner intentions)needed

to be respected and certainly not exposed to hindu view(see sita ram goel).

so in 2004 he opined as follows:

1.hindus have no choice but to vote for us,even if we have nothing to show as gains for them and we need not bother about

their views in future also.
2.let us thus follow the muslim appeasement policies of congress and consolidate power and enjoy like congis.

the whole party and the rss dutifully followed the piper to the ditch of their loss.

the dhoort was content with having got his name inscribed in the roll of dishonour along with the lifelong perks and is

happily enjoyimg his drinks,beef and siesta with his family who made whatever they could in his reign.

in 2009 stepped in the dhoort no2. with stars in his eyes and similar expectations.he felt he need only recount his personal

experiences regarding films,books he read in front of public and they will mount him on their heads.so in 2009 inspite of

monumental failures on the part of the congi rule the disgust in public mind against this dhoort lands the bjp and rss in a

deeper ditch.the robots as usual have no idea as to what is going on.

had this dhoort no2 even slightest of patriotism towards the motherland he would have handed modi the leadership and given

the beleagured hindu rashtra a fair chance for rejuvenation.

and now this dhoort having realised that the moorkhs(robots)have not learnt any lessons is readying himself for another go at

his desire with the able assistance of two muslims winning on hindu vote while furthering the cause dear to their hearts

i.e.islam.

Swabhimaan said...

Koshiyari's antics bring down BJP in Uttarakhand...Khanduri pays the price. Call this Justice for All.

Anonymous said...

If we wanted to know why BJP lost, just read the like of Ashwini above. If this is the mindset, Congress will win 300+ seats next time despite a duffer like Rahul Gandhi leading it. These fanatics have made the H-word -Hindutva, Hindu Nationalism UGLY one.

rone said...

offtopic but important.
'Your Forum has no formal recognition in the party yet. Officially, it has no backing whatsoever from the party – no support, no resources. It only evolved recently during the campaign.'
writes moderator in the lkadvani site.are they saying this site www.lkadvani.in is not officialy supported by BJP.
then it is ridiculous.
Then Kanchan gupta points out deletion and then addition(with mistakes) of "vandemataram' in BJP site.He mentions that the site is run by Mr.sudeendra kulakarni not the party.
That is more ridiculuos.
Weeks back i was googling "BJP Maharatstra" and the results were pure crap and a still image.I mailed every body who is anybody and luckly they have pulled it down .
At this rate swapan da yours will be the unofficial- official site of BJP

sanjay said...

Ashwani,

I wonder is it you who is enduring BJP/RSS or the other way round. And either way, why?

You think muslims and Christians are the biggest threat to hindus. Mayavati and IUML thinks hindus are the biggest threat to dalits/muslims, Are BSP, SP and IUML benchmarks for BJP? Should BJP intend to be the ruling/opposition party of India OR UP?
___________________________________________
“there are two kinds of people in politics today.they are
1.dhoorts(congis, mulayams, lalloos, paswans etc.)
2.moorkhs(bjp)…”

You seriously need to widen your horizon and think beyond mulayams, lalloos, paswans, unlike the previous decade, BJP today is just short of being a true national party having roots as far flung as Karnataka, Northeast etc. and your kind of outlook can only take us back by a few decades by confining to the Bimaru states.
___________________________________________
“the reason why bjp lost elections (in my view) are as follows:
the dhoort(vajpayee) of bjp misled the party and rss into believing that muslim sensibilities(their inner intentions)needed to be respected and certainly not exposed to hindu view(see sita ram goel). so in 2004 he opined as follows...”

Now everyone thinks that he should have been the “chief strategist”, you are not alone. Take a break and breathe some fresh air. Getting to rule India is not as simple as you and I think.

Anonymous said...

I did a google search on Vinod Mehta out of curiosity. Apparently he was the editor of Debonair and in his own words quite "biased" at that, especially on the positioning of the centerspread models.
Now I know why he is dishing out shit at all of us, he thinks we all are wannabe centerspread models and will take anything from him.

mpanj said...

@Balaji,

here you go again:

>>Lets even assume that Modi did not instigate and conspire to kill Muslims in Gujarat. But if he is an able administrator like some guys proclaim…….

You should do some research before flying off the handle (again) like this.

Modi had been in the CM's chair for less than a year when Godhra happened.

Balaji, you're drinking the NDTV/Testa/CNNIBN kool aid, by the tanker load.

NaMo has specified time and again. When he requested additional forces from neighboring (Congress ruled) states, they did not send them. Which btw is a normal practice when a calmity of this magnitude strikes.

He also offered to resign.

IMHO, Modi has more than made up for any administrative lapses that occurred during those riots. His record as an administrator since Godhra is nothing short of spectacular. Unparalleled in post-Independence India.

Also, ever wonder why our media never goes after the Congress/Sena combine that presided over the post-Ayodhya riots in Mumbai (1992) or the 1984 pogrom against Sikhs.

For one it would hurt their masters in the Congress/NCP.

And secondly (more importantly) Sena would eat them alive. Replace Modi with the Thackeray clan, and lets see how long these secular types exercise their right to free speech.

Would the likes of Vinod Mehta or Vir Singhvi or your friend Teesta survive a day (professionally speaking) if they wail over those riots. They know NaMo wont retaliate.

Besides, this breast-beating over Godhra is not about human rights, its about gaining a seat at the pseudosecular high table.

A low risk high return strategy.

NaMo is our future leader - future PM.

Balaji, learn to live with it.

p.s. Since your research wont stand up to scrutiny you keep falling back on inane arguments over NaMo's competence. I'm getting tired of these exchanges. I guess we can take the horse to the water but....

G Iyer said...

The national executive meet has not changed anything. The BJP continues to be in disarray and poor Mr.Advani has had to take on the task of 'guiding' and leading the party. The party with so many 'competent' leaders is unable to demonstrate leadership.

One feels sorry for the party. But one is worried that matters will get only worse, if Narendra Modi emerges as the leader of the party. More than his detractors outside the party, I am afraid his detractors inside the BJP will pull him down.

Anonymous said...

Swapan Babu > I thought Venkiah Naidu handled the final interaction with the media with the right mix of candour, firmness and humour.

Amen !
( Just to please the oxford principaly. )

Now question arises why I avoided Vir Sangvi ?

Happy Rides in Pajeros dada ...

perhaps factual information of Shourie is ghetto.. Ghetto redined by -- AJ

Anonymous said...

Vinod is beerbal , "swapan" OXFRORD! "swapan" is a artistic geisha ( presumed )

Anonymous said...

Ok. SO shourie is just a opinion maker. So he is not accountable. He goes around spewing venom and that is OK.

I would like to know, how is he he accountable for not being able to create opinion in BJP's favor. Did anybody buy his or Yashwant Sinha's line on the nuclear deal?

The most important thing at this time is discipline and he should demonstrate that.

Anonymous said...

anti-hindu mafia vocabulary

ugly hindu like muthalik and varun yes but otherwise ugly has no religion.so no ugly christian or ugly muslim like shahi imam or osama look alikes paraded for secularist campaign

saffron terror like alleged sadhvi, yes but otherwise terror has no religion.those 60,000 died in natural causes like 9-11 and godhra train .

hate speech only by hindus possible like varun and muthalik,but koran openly refers to killing of kafirs and non believers and mullahs preach this in india openly in mosques.now that is love speech to seculars.

1947-impure hindustan for hindus pure pakistan for pure muslims very loving attitude for hindus.

gandhi nehru had no problem with this love speech-attitude against infereior impure hindus.

hindus deserve this.only they can produce traitors with hindu names calling themselves seculars.

minorities have pride and self respect but not the slavish secular hindus who have no sense of
fair play.

so kashmir genocide is fine but these same wretched hindus will jump on this space
and lecture others about how varun and muthalik are the biggest villains and that too in a country that has lost 40 5 land to pure islam from which these same idiots like vinod mehta,kuldip nayar,ik gujral have fled in 47 only to lecture the hindus on this side and not the shahbano coed madrasa fatwa mulahs and their flock.

only wretched hindus have no learning capacity.but these same idiot-traitors will jump in discussions and lecture other hindus only about hatred and secularism.

these cowards disapper into their ratholes when it comes to lecturing mullahs who openly say "we will repeat 1947 and i am an isi agent"


man what a species.media-mafia can write about ugly hindus and mock hindutva but not otehr religions

mpanj said...

Swapanda,

a question for you.

Is there anyone taking a step back and looking at the broader picture.

This forum is emblematic of what may be happening in the larger right-of-center family.

Bickering, name calling, shooting the messenger, etc.

The ensuing bitterness could really derail this reconstruction before it has even gone through the birthing process.

We should be tolerant of all points of view. Regardless of the motives behind those that express them.

Let ideas stand on their merits.

Anonymous said...

A must read article, this lady is more near to common BJP voters than anybody else is.


http://vijayvaani.com/FrmPublicDisplayArticle.aspx?id=648

Anonymous said...

anon at 10.13 am june 22 about link to muslims beating swami.great link

this has been going on for ages.but sickular media-mafia will not report it.

and no one will write about ugly islam with ugly leaders and millions of followers who believ hindus derve this as taught in the book.

and if varun talks of sefdefence then u will have traitors like balaji pouncing as if a cracker has burst under him but these traitors will sleep peacefully if hindus are victims like they have been at godhra station and kashmir,moplah and for centuries.

and traitors with names like balaji will disarm hindus so that islam can take over the remaining land.no wonder he is aginst shivaji-types like modi and varun.

if balaji claims to be a hindu,i am sahamed to be one.

traitors are a dime a dozen among hindus.at least media mafia and teesta types and congress have motives.

but gullible hindu idiots and ignorants have no excuses for bashing varun and modi.shame on them.

this balaji guy has the nerve to call modi a mass murderer so gandhi-nehru are mass murderers for 1947 riots and all riots in india after 1947 because they let muslims stay behind
and so are congress cms who ruled dring bhagalpur and gujarat 1985,1969 riots etc etc.

and so is congress and kashmir muslim cms responsible for hindus being clensed.

shame on people like balaji and the anon who opposed ashwani.

only hindus create such traitors.the minorities ahve no problem with hatespeech against hindu pagans and infidels as their religion teaches it
in the book.

but dhimmi hindu slave like balaji love being slaves and ganging up against self respecting brave hindus like modi (and bal thacheray varun).

disgusting.balaji types shuld have the decency to convert.

Anonymous said...

good comments ashwani and tataghata mukhejee and the anon who posted the link to the beating of bengal swami by muslims.

see how the mediamafia is quiet
about the killers of swami and 4 disciples one of whom was a sanyasin which caused kandhamal riots.it seem sjustice is only for allegedly raped nuns who change their stories but not for killed swamis and disciples.

poster boy naveen patnaik is nonanswerable but modi had nanvati commission and now teesta petitioned SIT after the commission cleared him.

IF teesta-balaji types and MUSLIMS-MEDIAMAFIA had their way,they would lynch modi and varun from the nearest tree but appalud naveen patnaik for not catching swami's killers.

see how they r quiet on the ramkrisha swami beating in bengal and the mahant murder in orissa recently.

ofocurse they will blame the faceless maoists for all this.

but otherwise they know that the vhp-bjrandal hindus are responsible.

balaji shuld try for a job in teesta arabian gang or elmediamafia if he does not ahve one already.

one rule for hindus and one rule for minorities.and worse we will have people like ankan who will be swayed about graham staines and varun and modi mafiahype but will sleep peacefully about
pandi genocide and killing of hindu leaders in secular patnaik's orissa and bengal whre the ramkrishna swami was beaten by muslims.

and mindu such incidents r very common by muslims.but mafioso will hide them but hype hair pulling by harmless muthalik.

i hope gullibles like ankan visit the link posted by anon about bengal ramkrishna swami beatin by anon.

great link anon.keep it up.mafiosoelmedia will hush it up like they did pandit genocide.

hope sanghvi,mehta,barkha,roy,ibn,toi get rewarded well by anti hindu congress and teesta-arabia trust

Anonymous said...

this "inclusive hindutva" bs shows how hindus are easily pushed around by the secular mafia who start it and hype it because they have amafioso monopoly and then other idiots pick up the buzz.

not one of them is writing about ugly minorities or nonincusive pseudosecularism that they practice.to them patriotism is knee jerk nationalism

idiots hindus do not need lesson on inclusivity unlike minorities.

if the bjp is saying this though media cannot be believd because it loves to spin or lie about any comment by namelss bjp sources to embarrass hindus because of their anti-hindu agenda.

idiots lecture the minorities about inclusivity.


they do not tolerate other religions idiots.go to pakistan and kashmir idiots.

inclusive hindutva is a joke on the tolerant hindus.

hindutva itself means patriotsim and pride in the unique indic culture and nonappeasemnt.

obviously the mafioso media bleievs there shuld be one fisrt claim rule for the appaesemnt of congress votebank minorities and anotehr for the hindus who deserve it for creating a dime a dozen traitors like balaji and the elmedia hindu named eds. etc etc.

Anonymous said...

anon june 21 at 8 .

good comment on the trojan horse double role of swapn.

swapan is trying to earn a livelihood and selling himself for 2 minutes of tv fame/notoriety on mafioso media and is playing his part for which he gets invited.

the mafioso makes sure they introduce him a sbjp guy.

so that foolish reders will believe what he says and say to themselves look even bjp guy is picking on hindus and bjp in true secular style.

so bjp must be like that only.

swapans recent turn coatism is hurt ful and hardly brings cheer to people who wish the bjp well.

swapn is well advised to call himself a secular media mafioso
instead of a bjp guy.

hindus have no character.can be bought easily.see brajesh,congress swapan, govindacharya,kulkarni sc judge nero-khare who lectured modi for media-mafia agenda while the sc
itself is a big nero with cases dsuting for years for justice.

give

Anonymous said...

Look at how CPIM is united in defeat and look at these self important Arun Shourie, Jaswant, Yashwant.

I do not care whether they are intellectual or great or indispensable, what they are doing is hurting the party.

Their antics will not help the party and has damaged the image of the party.

Pranav said...

For mpanj:

mpanj: "No need for rants against Sonia and her progeny or the extended psec family"

Actually there is very credible information that Sonia was on the payroll of foreign intelligence agencies, and that the Gandhi family has several billions in Swiss bank accounts. If that is not a security risk, then what is? Should talking about this be called a "rant"? Will such a person be loyal to India, or be loyal to the bankers who hold the billions in ill-gotten wealth?

mpanj: "Follow the Sangh’s creed of selfless service for the next 3 years. No TV appearances, no name calling, no strategizing, no politicking ... Hit the pavement and reach out to your voters. On a daily basis. Listen and where possible use RSS’ network to solve problems – every day problems – education, water, etc."

All that is well and good, but unfortunately, in today's world, a large number of the voters are sitting in front of the TV (aka idiot box), so without a smart media strategy you will be sunk.

Anonymous said...

Swapan ji, BJP has to find find more SHOURIEs if they want to reach out to the educated masses..

And please dont take sides swapan.. be more objective!! Kanchanji has been very critical of the NE meet!! I hope your next post will be more objective..

Anonymous said...

It is good that the BJP is doing a post mortem. I feel that the tone of the debate in the right of centre of Indian politics should change, keeping it in tune with change in right of centre political debate in other countries. For ex., a Keralite nun released a book on miscounduct by male clergy men against nuns. This was released in March of 2009 (`Amen - Autobiography of a Nun' by former nun Dr. Sister Jesme). I did not see BJP take a stand on this kind of shocking behaviour. What would have been refreshing, and a serious setback for pseudo-secularists would have been BJP to go out and say that these kind of actions against girls and women is unacceptable in any religion. The debate should now focus on redefining and rechanging the focus, which has now been effectively tilted towards by parties opposing BJP to "ugly Hindu". The Hindu main stream will not like this tag and will blame the BJP for associating them with this tag. The BJP needs "real agendas" to reshape the debate.

Anonymous said...

Why is that there's always a sucker around to oblige flaming-baiting bigots of either the ashwani kind or balaji kind?

The Maverick said...

Swapan Da,

I think the single biggest problem in BJP today is lack of leadership and looks like it is on a freefall.

Unless someone takes over the mantle, the party will only go down. And I seriously think Rajnath Singh does not have it in him to be the leader at this present juncture

Anonymous said...

@ anon who gave this link

http://vijayvaani.com/FrmPublicDisplayArticle.aspx?id=648

great link man.. this article clearly sums up the feeling of not just BJP supporters but all Hindus.. BJP has certainly let down all of us, no wonder its core voters have moved away.. why aren't they speaking out against the mass conversions.. Swami Ramcharan Das hacked to death and not surprisingly the great secular ELM has sought to ignore it, BJP should speak out atleast now..

Anonymous said...

Advani ji is saying 'we have to reach out to the minorities'.. Modi ji would have said 'we have to reach out to all the 1.15 billion people of the country'..
i guess BJP is on the verge of becoming another pseudo-sec party..


jaitley ji should not have skipped the NE meet.. it has really left a bad impression of him.. if the top leaders keep their self interest above the party's, then i think we dont stand a chance even in the next election.. I just hope Jaitley ji goes thru' the comments on this blog..

Anonymous said...

Some readers have approvingly quoted Sandhya Jain. I have great admiration for her but she is obsessed with Christian/Imperial powers so much that in one of her columns, she supported occupation of Tibet by Communist China and advoated asking Dalai Lama to leave India!

Here is an interesting view on BJP meet and H-word from Edit in Hindu - a fair / balanced view without the usual ELM shrill from a pro-CPM paper. What a pleasant surprise!

http://www.hindu.com/2009/06/24/stories/2009062454710800.htm

Anonymous said...

So Gen Khandoorie has been sacrificed for no fault of his - everyone knows BJP lost because of the machinations of Koshiary, with backing form petty Khakis (RSS). Here is one of the most outstanding minisers of any party over past few dacades who did not indulge in any factionalism and carried out any job given to him by the party with competence and elan. And, this is how BJP has decided to humiliate an outstanding public servant. Contrats that with rewarding of Jaitleys, Advanis and Rajnaths! I hope the General quits BJP to form a regional party and win enough seats and these shameless Khakis will grovel before him. Disgraceful BJP leadership.

Anonymous said...

Here is an interesting take by Dr VP Vaidik:

http://www.bhaskar.com/2009/06/24/0906241113_bhaskar_editorial_bjp.html

Sorry readers, it is in Hindi. My apologies to those who can not read Hindi.

Anonymous said...

sd
do you think cong.will take risk to cancel warrant of q at the time of gen. election unless blackmailed by q?any prudent person can understand this.does it mean that mms would have yielded even abigger deal compromising indias interests if q has demanded?indians deserve explanation from mms.has mms not compromised indias huge huge interests by offering chidish excuses for swiss money?these and other simillar incidences listed on this blog worries informed indians.sitting in power like others mms has forgotten that today or tomorrow indians will demand explanations for his big blunders.he is only lucky that he has managed media and todays journalist have no guts to compell him to reply real questions.the worst part mms has allowed to influence all institutions for wasted interests thereby he has no faith in democracy .the students of journalism should appeal to news channels not todiscredit this important profession or indians will stop tusting and seeing them largely. mms is also lucky that bjp is weak and bjp has surprising limitations to back issues of people .by the way if size of indian swiss money is invested in projects including infra it can genrate employment for major ,tax revenues for developed world like facilitiesand faster indian debt repayament which will further reduce indias interest cost burden for creative uses.if mms use his informations ,powers and provisions of serious laws violated the wrongdoers will be compelled to disclose and bring them back immidiately.mms owes serious explanations to india.

Anonymous said...

Swapanda,
The differences between BJP and Congress is “unnees-bees” you take any parameter. The dissimilarities are elsewhere. A family is at the helm of affairs in Congress and RSS at BJP, here are the differences between the two:
• The family is guided by able advisors like Ahmed Patel who have a proven track records. we don’t know who advises RSS and what are their credentials
• There is little democracy in Congress, BJP perhaps has a little more.
• The family elected Manmohan Singh to lead Congress, RSS elected Rajnath Singh to lead BJP, compare the credentials of both and you will know the quality of decisions being taken at the top.
• The family has a watchdog called “National Advisory Council” to look over critical areas of the Congress govt. RSS has no such thing.
There can be no redemption of BJP if there is no meritocracy. Any world class organization allows only the best of the best to rise and stay at the helm of affairs. If the generals blunder even the best of soldiers can do very little.

Anonymous said...

dear sd
besides limitations i have high regards for namo.but sometimes he takes voters for ganted without knowing their mind by backing wrong leaders like lka and less prior issues.in india and guj.most police inspectors and their higherups arecrorepati or lakhpati beyond their means by misusing powers and harrasing people.namo is not able to control them.still want to give them more powers through gujcock assuring that it will not be misused by the same dept.even the present powers should be reduced from such proved dept. and safer to trasfer to courts.there are more than deserving powers with police using which police should be asked to give results or leave job for plenty unemplyoed inindia.when plenty of unemloyed in each field govt. should behave like a competent employer and not like a spoiling employer.has namo ever faced a misuse of powers by police in lock up?namo should be matured enough to realise that govt. and society are the mothers of poverty and crime.major judges in courts realise this fact sooner or later.after sixty years of independence do govt.or its health ministry ever think how to ensure hygenic foods(using boiled water and clean hands)from larries and small restaurant for citizens which can inturn increase trust and employment in food cattering and tourism?is ice sold ensured?are food inspectors discharging their duties inall areas orallowing risk to voters health?these are modern ideas which namo can get implemented and meet aspirations of young indians.

Anonymous said...

Actually there is very credible information that "Sonia was on the payroll of foreign intelligence agencies, and that the Gandhi family has several billions in Swiss bank accounts. If that is not a security risk, then what is? Should talking about this be called a "rant"? Will such a person be loyal to India, or be loyal to the bankers who hold the billions in ill-gotten wealth?"

-----------------------------------

hahahahaha are bus karo yaar....ye "credible info" only tum logo ke pass hi kyu hoti hai.....

mpanj said...

@Pranav,

various right wing leaders/commentators have gone after Sonia since 1997. Result? She rules as the defacto Empress.

There is an old saying: "People love the Under dog but follow the Top dog".

In India that is not the case. When NaMo played the underdog he won handsomely.

When LKA tried to corner MMS as weak, MMS ended up in the Underdog's chair.

When we attack Sonia she ends up as the under dog.

I guess, India is a land of under dogs. The electorate loves someone who takes on the system.

The Urban elite may have benefitted from 10 years of economic growth but they dont vote. The 300 million who still survive on less than $2 a day are the voters.

So unless this 'credible' evidence you speak of can be corroborated in a court of law or atleast in the court of public opinion we dont have much of a choice to dial back on using Sonia and her litter as punching bag.

It has always back fired.

mpanj said...

Pranav,

on the media side of things. Yes I do agree with you - we need a media strategy. No doubt.

But nothing short of having a right-leaning channel(s)/newspaper(s) would accomplish much.

Unless we have such an alternative BJP will be fighting this war on unequal terms - completely lopsided.

Moreover, most viewers are not like those participating on this platform. They are channel surfers who absorb their 'news' in small bite-sized pieces.

They rarely go into the details.

Next time an anti-BJP controversy erupts observe something carefully, the psec media will run the same clip over and over again and bury BJP's viewpoint (no matter how legit) somewhere in the middle of the story. And that too mention it only in passing.

There is no way to beat this media. The only way is to circumvent them and limit the damage.

If BJP boycotts these pro-congress media channels they will be denied the oxygen of legitimacy that comes with having a BJP face on their panels.

Lastly, launching a mass contact program will have several benefits:

1. Sharpen BJP’s organizational base,
2. Weed out the armchair, backroom operators,
3. Establish long lasting relationships with the voting community and most importantly
4. allow information to reach BJP’s strategists

This election has shown us how BJP was completely out of touch with its base. That cannot be rectified by either going after Sonia or engaging the media.

Pranav said...

Illiterate Anonymous at June 24, 2009 7:04 PM said: "hahahahaha are bus karo yaar....ye "credible info" only tum logo ke pass hi kyu hoti hai....."

I am reproducing in full an article by Rajinder Puri:

----------------------------------------

Is Sonia Above Questioning?
by Rajinder Puri

http://www.boloji.com/myword/mwna074.htm

The BJP has taken up the secret Indian Swiss bank money issue. Does it seriously contemplate recovering the money? Or is it just a poll gimmick? Recall the party’s somersault on the Indo-US Nuclear-Deal. If the deal destroys national security why have Arun Shourie and Yashwant Sinha not resigned? Are they political opportunists? Do they or don’t they really intend to deliver results on the Swiss money? If the BJP is serious about fighting corruption there is no dearth of issues. Take one glaring example.

On August 15 2006 this scribe wrote:

“Dr. Yevgeniya Albats is a Soviet journalist who …was appointed as member of the official KGB Commission set up by President Yeltsin in 1991. She had full access to secret files of the KGB. She authored a book, The State within a State: KGB and Its Hold on Russia …. Dr. Albats disclosed in her book that KGB chief Victor Chebrikov in December 1985 had sought in writing from the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (CPSU), ‘authorization to make payments in US dollars to the family members of Mr. Rajiv Gandhi, namely Sonia Gandhi, Rahul Gandhi and Ms Paola Maino, mother of Sonia Gandhi.’ CPSU payments were authorized by a resolution, CPSU/CC/No 11228/3 dated December 20, 1985; and endorsed by the USSR Council of Ministers in Directive No. 2633/Rs dated December 12, 1985. These payments had been coming since 1971, as payments received by Sonia Gandhi's family, and ‘have been audited in CPSU/CC resolution No. 11187/22 OP dated October 12, 1984.’

“In 1992 the media confronted the Russian government with the Albats disclosure. The Russian government confirmed the veracity of the disclosure and defended it as necessary for ‘Soviet ideological interest’. The Hindu of July 4, 1992 carried this report….In November 1991 the respected Swiss magazine, Schweitzer Illustrate, published a report alleging that Rajiv Gandhi had 2.5 billion Swiss francs, equivalent roughly to two billion US dollars, in numbered Swiss bank accounts....Surely, Mrs. Sonia Gandhi owes herself and the nation an emphatic and effective rebuttal of the Albats charges?”

On November 18 2006 I again wrote:

“…Until now there has been only deafening silence from Mrs. Gandhi and the Congress party….If the Albats allegation published in a reputed research book is false, Mrs. Sonia Gandhi should promptly deny it. Otherwise, her silence could be perceived as assent.”

The government remained silent. But so did all the opposition parties! Why? Are the opposition leaders themselves also vulnerable and compelled to maintain discreet silence? Draw your own conclusions.

Suyash said...

"Dr. Yevgeniya Albats is a Soviet journalist"....Hmm...here's one clue..why don't you go to Dr.Subramanyam Swamy's website and unearth more "credible" conspiracy theories...surely he would have more credibility as compared to some "soviet journalist".....you would also come to know that Sonia had an affair with Madhavrao Scindia, she had a hand in killing of all her family members so that she could grab power ( That she hasn't grabbed any is a matter of small inconvenience.) Why let truth come in the way of a juicy story? :) And while you are at it do publish Rahul's dark deeds too. Sukanya, Boston arrest, false educational claims etc.....basically incarnates of Satan...oops in case your BP goes up... make it Shaitan, this Gandhi family. :P:P

And when you wake up, one thing will still remain true....they are standing like rock between your favourite party and it's quest to return to power !! :)

Anonymous said...

"it was agreed that extremism does not pay"

what extremism? is pota extemism?is self defence of the country against islamic jihad extremism.varun (and modi) reacting in selfdefence to protect india from growing islamic influence financed by arabia for last 30 years and the bangladeshi invasion.

and what is moderate and inclusive?

first claim,muslim reservations,ban on coed madrasas,banish tasleema,cbse = madrasa,antulay treachery blessed by the congress after 26-11
no justice for 60000 terror victims,no justice for kashmiri hindus .

is swapan writing about this? no.

so islamic proxy takeover of remaining india as per the holy book is secularism and moderatism.

and defending against it is extremism.wow

and then there is the pseudosec ed comment.

that so called extremism only of the
hindu variety does not pay.hindus shuld just sedate themselves and not even be concerned about discrimination.graham staines desreves justice but not the swamis and the mahants.

and all this because the anti-hindu mafioso media sets the discussion rolling with its agenda against hindu assertion and we have articles on h and ugly h and inclusive and exclusive ,moderate v extreme.

all of course only on the eunuch dhimmi hindus
( extremist hindu ? ? ha ha )some of whom are glad to join in this charade started by the hindu hating media-mafia who are out to destroy modi,varun,and bjp and signs of any hindu assertion against conversions and islamism.

Arjun said...

The BJP needs to hold internal elections and elect its leaders through an honest process. if the party continues to elect leaders on the recommendations of an 80 year old who has so soundly been rejected by the electorate, then nothing has really changed. So Swapan, if your Chaddi buddy Jaitley wants to be BJP President, ask him to run and not suck up to Advani. If Modi is so great,ask him to run and let the BJP cadre and leaders vote for their choice. If the BJP cannot do this, then forget. The fish has started stinking anyway!

Anonymous said...

comment on utube

AR Rahman after winning oscar said "All my life I've had a choice betwen hate and love, and i chose love and now i am here" so hinduism is hate and you convert to islam and get all the love. If any body support hinduism he will be detained under NSA. If you hate hinduism you get doctorate. This is the meaning of secularism for foreign controlled media.

Anonymous said...

truly aazing even a defensive posture by hindus after centuries of aggression and 1947 annexure of 35 % land , is called ugly-rightwing-communal-extremist and what not

what a community.it creates people who want hindus to bendover and take it.and that is glorified a secular by aggressive hindu haters
in media and minorities.

so all hindus shuld be like the kashmiri pandis.either convert or leave or be killed.
or else u r ugly,communal-extremist and extremism will not pay because muslims will vote against u and if you appese them they will vote for u.

so heads islam wins tails hindus lose.

gret going secular afiosos working for hindu hating jihadis and conversioonists.

a sedated disarmed hindu is a truly pretty hindu like the sitting duck pandits in kashmir.

convert to islam guys and start teaching your grand children namaaz.

allahoh akbar secularism hurray.

Anonymous said...

Can BJP float a proposal to gift Air India to Pakistan? It will be a good way to help out PIA, increase India-Pakistan friendship and get some minority votes all at the same time.

Pranav said...

Mpanj, often the really important points against the Congress are not presented to the people - the criticism has to be based on substantive issues and not trivialities. Thus, Sushma Swaraj's threat of "Mundan" is not the way to go. It could be that the BJP leadership restrains itself from making the important points because the Congress itself knows compromising information about the BJP top brass. After all, sleazy characters like Pramod Mahajan were promoted by none other than Advani and Vajpayee.

Furthermore, even if the points were to be presented properly, they would be misrepresented by the media. I agree with you about the need for nationalistic media sources.

Pranav said...

Suyash, Dr. Yevgeniya Albats is a very credible and well known figure. And she's not on the payroll of the RSS, by the way.

zoomindianmedia said...

To the anonymous who commented on Rehman: Some facts.

1. Rehman was a real slumdog whose mother converted to islam. Tableeghi sufis are also on the prowl looking for weaker sections and those that underwent trauma.

2. That said, rehman is an islamist. First generation/second generation converts are usually among the fanatical since many feel the need to rationalise their family's decision.

3. Rehman's music legacy is essentially his Hindu father's not muslim. His father Sekhar was a music director in South Indian movies. Also Rehman was given his initial break by Ilaiyaraja, who is believed to be most outstanding composer in South India.

4. Muslim networking and connections helped rehman break into larger Hindi market.

5. What really sucked was A R Rehman's behavior undermining Sukhi (Sukhvinder Singh who sung the Jai Ho song) who was prevented from participating in Oscar Award Ceremony. Sukhi had mailed his passport to Rehman for getting the visa stamp since Rehman was coordinating the logistics. How else, but by stopping Sukhi, could Rehman get the PR points that accrue by singing in front of global audience. Sukhi of course was magnanimous enough not to make this an issue.

Dont be fooled by what people like Rehman say. Rehman's actions represent lows worthy of islamism.

Anonymous said...

Nice one Swapan!

BTW a brilliant article by Arun Shourie

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/new-beginnings/476900/

Anonymous said...

Pranav: … The electorate loves someone who takes on the system…
Excellent observation Pranav. Victimhood is a magic potion, Vajpayee perfected it, so has Manmohan Singh. Imagine the prime minister of a country pleading victimhood from his own ministers after five years of power. In any other democracy the press would have called his bluff, but yeh India hai mere dost, and media? What media, they are only dignified prostitutes. But I wonder what stopped the seasoned BJP leaders from playing this card even after being actually victimized, trust them to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Even Varun Gandhi can redeem himself if he plays this card well. It would be interesting to see who will play victimhood in 2014 Manmohan Singh or Rahul Gandhi and from whom.

Anonymous said...

Suyash,

Here we are discussing people like Narendra Modi and Gen. Khanduri etc. who are not afraid to be held accountable for their actions good or bad. Not people like Sonia Gandhi and Manmohan Singh, who have responsibilities without accountabilities, and who after five years of power plead victimhood from their own allies, who might be having wealth equivalent to GDP of Ethiopia in their numbered swiss accounts, and certainly have tail waggers like you hoping to get some biscuits.

Arjun said...

There are so many gray areas in the comments of all those journalists who claim to write on behalf of the "right" that it is difficult to know who is providing an honest aappraisal of the situation and who is providing an outlet for the opinions of a certain section of the party.

1. For example, Sandhya Jain has absolutely lambasted Arun Jaitley in her latest column while Swapan claims he cannot be objective about the man.

2.Modiphiles talk as if modi is this saint who will renounce all power for the greater good of the party. It is as if Modi played no politics to deflect any criticism that may have come his way. Snippets of news articles that provide little or no information are provided as proof of Modi's credibility. How will an average indian know which journalist is honest and who is a paid hack writing nonsense. Frankly, does any blogger know Modi personally to know what he thinks abt muslims and their rights as indians etc?

3. Swapan says the NE ended on a positive note. Kanchan Gupta says it was a sham. Ashok Malik wants elections to clear the air while everybody else has their own opinion to provide about the BJP's turmoil.

4. Finally, bloggers and other keep quoting newspaper reports to make their points Vis-aVis the culpalibility of individuals within the BJP regarding riots, policy decisions etc etc. Not once does it cross the mind of such people that the media itself has lost credibility and faces a trust deficit at least in the eyes of individuals like me who dont know which journalist is trustworthy and who is not.

Such a divergence of views amongst the "right wing" media is very disturbing.

Yeh Bakwaas band karo, PMO mein press naukri ke sapne chodo aur andhar ki baat sach sach batao.

The right wing media seems to reflect the corruption that has eaten the core of the BJP away...Ek chota sa decision bhi Nahin Le pathi yeh party aur yahan log Karma Yogi ki maang kar rahen hai!!

mpanj said...

Pranav:

you have raised to a very important point.

Corruption is only one part of the baggage that the current crop of BJP leaders bring to the political battlefield.

Unless we have someone like Modi who is corruption free and has never compromised on terror or any other issue of national importance, BJP will keep functioning in a reactive mode.

Here's a sample of our political dialogue has been conducted to Congress' advantage over the past 5-6 years:

BJP: Congress is soft on terror
Congress/NDTV: BJP gave us Khandar (BJP please respond)

BJP: Congress is corrupt
Congress/CNNIBN: Remember Bangaru Laxman

BJP: Congress is pseudosecular
Congress/etc.: BJP is communal

And if Congress is really cornered: "All politicians are bad"

And the real issues get buried.

Just look at the state of our nation. Even after 60 years we are at the mercy of rain gods.

WTH....what more issues do we need.

Anonymous said...

panj,ur comment disappoints.have praised u for some other comments.

modi was an underdog in the media campaign and still is because the elmafia are paid agents of anti hindu forces against bjp.

sonia cannot be perceived as an underdog except to the dimwitted.she is ruling the country for heavens s ake.

rajiv lost in 1989 on the bofors issue.that said
the media will cover up pranav's story for the sake of their maters.

mms was not an underdog in the election.such negative campaigning goes on in all elections.

sonia and rahul dont mince words.

out of 28 % congress winning vote 8 out of 10 voters are muslims as a school kid anaylsed based on actual data,not just conjectures like yours.

as long as muslims vote with religous fatwas an d fervour aginst a so called drumbeated hindu party and in india,the congres misruled idiotic system allows people to win with 28 % vote with
strategic divisive candidates like rajthack ,congress will win and all secular politicians know this and shamelessly pass shahbano,cbse = madrasa.

theories like ugly hindu,shrill campaign,exclusive hindutva is just conjecture in the arm chair or being led like a brainless sheep by the media-mafia opinion makers
who blame modi,varun,hindutva,muthalik etc
which only idiotic hindus will vote on.

the muslims are the target of such antivarun,anti-modi,pink chaddi campaign with some idiot macaulayed youth falling for it,but most of the ccongress vote is the minority vote.

it is plain math and this segment is growing as per the censs plus illegal bangladeshis.

congress and media know this.

only ignorants dont.and only idiots would vote because mms and sonia are underdogs based on a campaign.

by that token varun went to jail and there was the usual 24-7 pouncing on him by mafia-media so he was also an underdog.

modi was a real underdog becuaese the locals knew his performance and what happened in the riots.

but remeber the main target is the energizing of minority votebank.if some idiot hindus are sswayed by this fake outrage against varun when there r several such cases in the congress,then they r living up to media-mafioso goal of fooling them.

ankan here is an eg and the anon who caved in with calling varun to apologize.many hindus were forced to vote tactically in up.eg jayaprada won because hindus wanted the muslim noorbano defeated as per ground info nd bjp had no chance in ramgarh.

Anonymous said...

someone said
Congress Asurs - same people who unleashed Ram Sene and Muthalik to a devastating effect - are plotting to topple BJP

my reply.

congress has appointed bhradawaj as knataka governor.the same law minister guy who defroze quatrochi acct
and all that cbi drama in argentina at taxpayer expense and lettin q off with mms-sonia blessing.

mms-sonia gang did the same in jharkand,bihar midnight drama with (suitcase jmm scam guv buta singh),goa.parliament vote with bribe.

and swapan gave mms a certificate on honesty on ndtv when uncalled for.and has written 5 articles on ugly extermest hindutva and hit varun below the belt on ndtv.

the worst thing about india is varun and ugly h according to the mafioso media and the best is congress rule of 60 yrs with india
easily winning the goldmedal in corruption and poverty even if we cant even win one gold at olympics.see china.it does not have the virus of pseudosecularism and 25 % muslim votebank in the turnout vote which cares about religion and life hereafter but not development.so congress-media can win after raking up hindutva knowing just the word hindu makes the minorities froth
at the mouth due to their indoctrination.

and these shameless scum call bjp divisive and hateful when it is the congress media that fans hatred for votes like in gujarat elections by 24-7 screaming about post godhra.and some idiots like balaji fall for it.

Suyash said...

Hey Anonymous@ 8.39pm, ( How hard is it to put in a name while commenting, from the drop down select name/url,type name and you are done,
the IQ requirements aren't too demanding there)

I didn't know we were talking about NM & Khanduri here. I thought the post was on BJP NE meet in the first place !! No? :)
I was responding to comment by Pranav there @9.31pm. He got that. Oh or is it that you can
start a new discussion thread from a comment and I can't? And you think the PM of India and the chairperson of UPA have no accountability? Really? Hmm...interesting.
I also must be out of loop to never hear PM/SG
pleading victimhood anytime.

Oh yeah...call it tail wagging and love for biscuits if that makes you happy.
And then some wonder why BJP is unable to break new grounds !! :P

Pranav @12.50pm - No I don't make any such conspiracy theories about RSS. So the "respectable" journalist says Rajiv got 2 Billion USD ( Seriously, he kinda overshot his imagination in quoting the amount here) To do what?
If I had got that kind of money, I would have been obliged to declare India a communist nation !! :):)
And with a 434 strength in LS, I probably could have. :P

Anonymous said...

One step forward on the path that RSS led BJP so far would be a bottomless ditch. But the agony is that, conversely a step backwards would also be fall down the cliff and get scattered.

The clamor for repackaging this RSS product called Hindutva has been going on for decades. In the process, people benefited politically and eventually materially through it. But unfortunately, none of their stalwarts, right from Savarkar to Hegdewar to Shyama Prasad to Advani have been able to prove that Hindutva is not hatred but something else. Not even Vajpayee could do that. Now, there are no suitable conditions prevailing and no time left to repackage it again as you have reached the dead end with Advani being exhausted, finally. Now, the centrists are anxiously waiting for Modi to be projected as your next leader!

Political parties seek power that leads to corruption. You people missed to read this definition. There lies the tussle between RSS and BJP. We all know that there was a time, not very long ago when RSS had more blue eyed boys in the Congress party than in Jansangh. So, to sum it up all, it would be too simplistic to believe that the RSS is not a conglomeration that seeks power. The components of RSS themselves speak for the content of its ideology. It is not an all inclusive outfit but a front for corrupt 'vaishyas' who have placed the egoist yet pliable 'thakurs' as their firewall. Brahmin has normally evaded the RSS while the dalit did not fit into the hidden ideology.

In the face of given default of basic human society, it would be rather better not to display morality along with politics, the politics that seeks power eventually. Just be straightforward and choose between social service for Hindus only or all inclusive politics without malice. Stop sailing in many boats altogether. But I think that its too late to do that either. A split is imminent as all those many boats would sail past in different directions.
Moral of the story: You can't fool all the people all the time.

Anonymous said...

Suyash,

So you contend that MMS and SG have accountabilities. They reward people with high authorities based on their loyalty to the family instead of the country – Pratibha Patil for President!! Shivraj Patil for Home Minister!! never mind if they are more interested in making fashion statements/attending parties when lesser mortals are dying of bomb blasts. At this rate you have a bright future, only problem is, you are wagging your tail at wrong place.

Oldtimer said...

Dear Arjun,

You err badly. It is essential to have tolerance and even respect for diversity of opinion. It is good that in the matter of airing their divergent opinions, members of the so-called right are quite unlike that of Left, whose lunatic fringe is generally hard to distingusih from the "mainstream". Take the Nandigram massacre. Comrade Drama Queen made threateing noises of "protests" and went away whimpering after the message was reached through proper channels to her that she better shut the eff up. Praful Bidwai made his quota of perfunctory noises and then started pretending the massacre never happened. The columnists of party journals like The Hindu and Frontline pretended to be surprised as to why everybody was making a fuss about a small matter like Nandigram. And then those loony liberation theologist bloggers: those who can't decide whether they are evangelicals first or socialists: When not claiming with a straight face that leftwing ideology is not tainted by the genocides it committed, they are busy advancing communal politics of hate centered around constructing Hindu(tva) persecution of "minorities". All these characters are speaking more or less in the same voice; none has pointed out, post-elections, that the sins of the Left -- murders, intimidation, propaganda -- are coming home to roost.

In other words, not one of them has the humaneness to admit that an appetite for violence is intrinsic to the Leftist ideology. And here you have none other than Swapan, supposedly a "Hindutva" ideologue, arguing that "Hindutva" is flawed. What a world of contrast!

So I am surprised you are sneering at what ought to be appreciated: the fact that the Right nurtures an environemnt of freedom in whcih people can speak their minds, while the other party feigns a unity necessitated by the imperatives of its collective fanaticism.

Arjun said...

Oldtimer: I take issue with the differing factual claims regarding events in the BJP!

Opinions based on differing factual claims is not diversity in viewpoint. It suggests that the truth is somewhere in between. If so,strong opinions expressed on the basis of what may be half-baked truth is harmful and journalism based on that is damaging. Your point regarding the opinions expressed abt hindutva is not the issue and is not what I am contesting. As an example, what do you think about the scathing article on Arun Jaitley by Sandhya and the negative commentary on him by the India Today wrt his conduct and contribution during the elections given the regard in which Swapan and some others hold him? The man might be the next BJP president. That is the issue and is a legitimate point to raise given the impact such decisions can have on the future of the BJP.

Another example, Did the NE end on a positive note or was it just a sham. This matters given the state the BJP is in. Opinions differ based on the interpretation of events by individual journalists but such variation in commentary makesmewonder whether the NE achieved its objective or do some people have such low expectations from such events that anything remotely positive is cause for cheer?

BJP_supporter said...

Arjun,
When I read this,
"Opinions based on differing factual claims is not diversity in viewpoint. It suggests that the truth is somewhere in between. ... As an example, what do you think about the scathing article on Arun Jaitley by Sandhya and the negative commentary on him by the India Today wrt his conduct and contribution during the elections given the regard in which Swapan and some others hold him? .... Another example, Did the NE end on a positive note or was it just a sham. This matters given the state the BJP is in. Opinions differ based on the interpretation of events by individual journalists but such variation in commentary makesmewonder whether the NE achieved its objective or do some people have such low expectations from such events that anything remotely positive is cause for cheer?"

I was reminded of this -

"Good friends, sweet friends, let me not stir you up to such a sudden flood of mutiny. They that have done this deed are honorable. What private griefs they have, alas, I know not what made them do it. They are wise and honorable and will, no doubt, with reasons answer you."
http://www.scribd.com/doc/7238347/JULIUS-CAESAR-William-Shake-Spears

And oldtimer, good to see you.

Ankan said...

"

BJP: Congress is soft on terror
Congress/NDTV: BJP gave us Khandar (BJP please respond)

BJP: Congress is corrupt
Congress/CNNIBN: Remember Bangaru Laxman

BJP: Congress is pseudosecular
Congress/etc.: BJP is communal

And if Congress is really cornered: "All politicians are bad"
"
COuld not agree more. That is the way things have gone in last few years, and the BJP guys have taken it lying down. Wat to do.

Anonymous said...

god save india from the likes of arjun.

compare this jihadi agent against hindus with the arjun who fought for justice when krishna adviced him.

but a s per god of psedosec jihadi agent ,hindus shuld be taken over by islam.

only traitors like arjun can be against a person like modi.
he has no dynasty,workoholic, incorruptible and has made gujarat into a developed land where people like arjun shuld be required a visa to enter.they dont deserve modi. everyone with minimal brains except muslims,mafioso media,congress give modi credit.economic reports,stats,crores of gujerati voters and industry people who know,ratan tata being one example who voted with his nano.

arjun and his muslim friends love congress corruption,misrule,no water,no power and they still vote for them because to them heaven is all.

english mafioso media and congress ofourse have enough loot in swiss bank from 60 yr rule which helps congress fed corrupt media dogs.

mpanj said...

@Anonymous

First, growth in muslim population does not explain Congress' resounding victories in delhi and even Vidharba - where MNS wasnt a factor and where Congress governance has led to record number of farmer suicides.

I agree with you on the influence of changing demographics on our election results.

But that only reemphasizes my point.

How many Indians know that when UPA took power in 2004 the census bureau released its latest figures which clearly indicated that muslim population was growing at almost 15% faster than Hindus.

We know that there is no truly secular Muslim majority nation in the world. If Muslims get to 30% we may as well give up any hope of salvaging our nation.

Shouldn’t this fact alone help present Hindus as the underdogs? The victims?

Shouldnt this fact, help unite Hindus into a strong votebank.

Did we hear anyone in the Sangh take to the streets to educate Hindus on this issue.

Congress with the help of a very pliant media, has been able to frame the agenda time and again to its advantage.

BJP and the Sangh keeps coming across as high handed.

Here are a few examples:

The stage managed Muthalik fiasco.
Attacks on Churches in Karnataka.
The Amarnath yatra controversy from last year.
Again BJP was painted as the Goliath. BJP supported Hindus/Sikhs in Jammu blocked food supplies to Srinagar was the false propaganda.
Anyone watching our news channels would have been hard pressed to understand that Hindus were victims. That they could not ask for even a few acres of barren land in their own country.

Sonia and MMS are not Underdogs. Sure. But the impression the average Indian has is that these two are ‘saints’ - relatively speaking.

Sonia by virtue of her sham ‘Sacrifice’ and MMS….well by being personally non-corrupt.

When I asked some erstwhile BJP supporters who voted Congress this time about how MMS could be classified as ‘clean’ after his ‘votes for notes’ confidence trick to support the nuclear deal?

The response was – ‘well he did it for the good of the nation’.

That sadly is the impression we have to deal with.

Go back to 1989-1991. Why was Hindutva so successful? For once the Sangh had been able articulate a coherent case before India.

Following were the some of the reasons that made sense to me back then:

1. Hindus were fast turning into ‘minorities’ in their own land – an entity as revered as the ‘Ramkrishna Mission’ had applied for minority status so as to avail of the benefits given to minority institutions.
2. Minorities (particularly Muslims) were a pampered lot. Shah Bano being the latest example of this trend that started well before partition.
3. The Sangh was an honest, clean and dedicated body that soldiered on for the cause of a strong nation built on our cultural values – fighting against all odds.
4. Every other party was corrupt ‘Try us out’ was BJP’s slogan.

Underlying all these factors was the perception that BJP was the David to the pseudosecular Goliath.

Now BJP has walked into every trap Media/Congress has laid over the past 10 years. From the pressure tactics over Khandahar to the stage managed Muthalik fiasco.

In each of these instances BJP comes across as heavy handed or callous or both.

We cant keep falling in this trap and expect to win.

As the famous dictum from Sun Tsu goes ‘Every war is won before it is fought’.

With a perpetual perception deficit, BJP looses every war before it even stands up for the fight.

Anonymous said...

As the Congress mouthpiece says BJP has a habit of scoring self goals. The attack on PM led people to check the veracity of the claims.


BJP has to learn to run a low key campaign instead of shouting all the time.

mpanj said...

@Anonymous - June 26, 2009 12:05 PM

Your little ‘nugget’ sounds like an excerpt from a leftist propaganda booklet.

The Sangh has always stood for what it believed in – even at the cost of having several thousand members incarcerated.

Yes RSS did have friends in the Congress. But these were likeminded individuals who appreciated, respected and supported the work being done by the Sangh.

These weren’t Padmashri seeking lapdogs. They weren’t bribed.

Sangh has always put India first. Going to the extent of blindly supporting even the Congress, where ever and when ever India’s interests were threatened.

Now contrast this with your friends on the left and the new post-Lal Bahadur Shastri Congress.

The former loves communist of every hue, going to the extent of calling China’s 1962 aggression a myth (Yechuri, 2006).

And the latter is more loyal to the family above all else.

As far as RSS’ role vis-à-vis minorities, as Savarkar once said:

“I’m an Indian, but if you insist on calling yourself a muslim, I will insist on calling myself a Hindu”.

Lastly, RSS/Modi is our last line of defense. If they are banished, be prepared to wear a skull cap and give up the rights and freedoms you leftists take for granted.

But then again has history has proven, you guys are the first ones to cave in.

Arjun said...

The bottomline in my previous comments is that the line beetween politics and journalism is blurred to the extent that it impacts the credibility of those who comment on politics, politicians and political parties. Why is Chandan Mitra's credibility ZERO? Its because the man has no shame in jumping back and forth between his roles as a " impartial" journalist and his role as the MP of the BJP. Journalists do not follow a disclosure policy of any sort with regards to their relationships with the politicians and political parties that they interview, write about or comment on. Therefore, the fact that there exists a myraid of opinion regarding the inner turmoil in the BJP does not suggest diversity in viewpoints oranything elseremotely healthy. It probably suggests that several of these individuals blur facts with opinions and biases. The days of good old fashioned politics followed by good old fashioned news reporting is finished and so i state that truth lies somewhere in between and none on this blog or elsewhere will know what it is.

Anonymous said...

panj u say

-Now BJP has walked into every trap Media/Congress has laid over the past 10 years. From the pressure tactics over Khandahar to the stage managed Muthalik fiasco.

In each of these instances BJP comes across as heavy handed or callous or both.---

reply

the elmedia is owned by the congress and are as good as fraud congressmen posing as media to fool people.in fact they hate the anti-conversion nonappeasment bjp even more than congress because of their links to arabia teesta funding,evangelicals etc.

i cant believe the vajapayyee govt could not encourage the setting up of another media unlike the mafia.

the media hid mms and sonia's failings and performance.it filters all news and actually
calculates everything in terms of benefits and losees to congress relative to bjp.

bangaru was actually forced to accept the money by the tehelka agent if u watch video closely and then the media went to town with it just like varun.tehelka ofcourse is part of the congresss owned mafia.they could find thousnads of corruption cases against congress but they target bjp.

unfortunately some people are taken in though i wonder how many. there are some gullibles who get taken in by valentines,muthalik etc but muthalik is nowhere near the fear of the mullahs who enforece islam on women and ban tv or tasleema.

so it really comes down to exposing the corrupt media-mafia and that is where the bjp failed.

muthalik was cowering before the boyish arnab and to compare him to taliban is a another sikular joke just like after sadhvi selling her mobike made saffron terror a coinage by the mafia which always tells us terror has no religion.

the media-congress is harvesting the fools mostly among minorities but also some gullibele macaulayed youth.

i dont think mms and sonia are considered saints and bjp is seen as highhanded because a sampling of comments from many places show many hindus see thru the media.ofcousre there are gullibles and fashionables who think bashing bjp will make them page 3 club type s like shobha and barkha.

the 28 % congress vote is mostly muslim and then add on christians,marxists,liberal arts types,macaulayed youth which make up the 10 % congress vote.muslims are 8 out of 10 in congress vote (and the 5 state bjp absence).

delhi has many bangaldeshis and the corrupt babus had two reasons to vote congress
corruption and swissbank issue and government sops and the sikhs may have been pro mms

Anonymous said...

panj also remember that the anti-incumbency was against the upa big time.inflation,recession,terror.etc

muslims come out and vote and dont care about anything but religion and heaven.

the hindus were watching ipl and found it too hot to vote.

i always wonder about the evms.chawala and congress can do anything.use cbi,governors,media bribes emergency,ecs etc

.
so why not evems in close seats with plaint upa cms.upa stats surprisingly dodged anti-incumbency that hit tn and ap in 2004.

there is something fishy here.

Anonymous said...

It is not very difficult to see why BJP is not doing well. Just look at their top leadership team. Jaitley - who did not want to lead BJP in Delhi elections, Joshi and Rajnath - BJP is decimated in UP, Naidu - BJP does not exist in AP and Sushma - has done nothing to revive the party in Haryana.

Arvind said...

@Editor

"There is a constitutency (hardliners would be the term I guez) which wants that, and BJP can ill-afford to ignore them"

Why not? What they gonna do? Vote for Congress?? LOLZ!!

BJP must be like the Republican Party in US. Sure it needs the support of these "hardliners" jus like R Party needs votes from some nutcase evangelicals!! But more important are the middle class voters, urban voters, traders and merchants. And yes throw Varun Gandhi out! He seems to have inherited some of his father's traits! We don't want a friggin CIVIL WAR between Hindus and Muslims in India!!

Arvind said...

@Anonymous
"BJP has to learn to run a low key campaign instead of shouting all the time."

Then u don't even need to run a campaign!! Why bother unnecessarily? Looks like ppl are coming up with all sorts of ridiculous reasons!!

AK said...

i always wonder about the evms

It's about 99% certain that some of the EVMs were rigged. I say this because the source code for the EVMs has not been made public, and my experience says that such intentional obscurity is resorted to only to conceal the means for conducting fraud.

The question is how this can be proved and how the EVMs can be discarded for future elections.

Oldtimer said...

>The bottomline in my previous comments is that the line beetween politics and journalism is blurred to the extent that it impacts the credibility of those who comment on politics,

Dear Arjun,

I did not respond to your previous comment because it did not seem significant enough to respond to, but it looks as you're of those sort who, if unachallened, are prone to assuming self-congratulatory airs of settling a point once and forever. :-) It is generally attention-deficit leftwingers who enter rightwing blogs and bait people in order to attract attention, but it seems BJP supporters are prone to the disease too. :-)

So let's take your previous message first. Did you say that Swapan's point about BJP NE meet ending on a "positive" note? Well, most matters connected to or involving politics are a matter of opinion, not fact. The examples you cited are matters of opinion, not fact. Let me give you more examples where it may seem even easier to make a fact judgement but in reality what is being judged is not fact. Is the Narmada dam good or bad? Comrade Roy and her gaggle of Morse-Report-citing loony fans will tell you the dam is an absolute evil. But ask thousands of farmers and millions of people whose lives have already been positively impacted by it: they have a different oopinion. Problem is that there is no consensus on what constitute the parameters of "good" and "bad" in this instance.

Is Narendra Modi evil incarnate? Responsible for the riots of 2002? Ask our friend Comrade Balaji. Well, you don't have to ask the chap actually. At the frequency of approximately once in three days, he makes a suo motu announcement on the subject, borrowing liberally from leftwingers in his erudite compositions. Ask the majority of Gujarat voters who voted for Modi multiple times -- they think it was actually the left-Islamist axis that provoked rioting by justifying the Godhra massacre.

To return to your point, it is quite possible that Swapan and Sandhya have different perceptions on what constitutes "positive" note. To insist that they must have the same yardstick is again to show the same intolerance for diversity of opinion that is fact becoming a distinguishing trademark of you, Balaji and Ram Srinivasan and a couple of others here. (Incidentally, I don't personally think the BJP meet eneded on the right note. I would have preferred it to end with a big fight, battlelines clearly drawn and immediate organizational elections being the only way out of the impasse. But you see, I obviously don't share with Swapan as to what constitutes the "right" note. :-)

Returning to your rhetorical questions on Chandan Mitra and others, turn the question inward, and ask yourself: why is that you have not been able to convince anybody here except Balaji and Laxman Srinivasan? Does it really have anything to do with your insistence on uniformity and conforamnce to party line, Comintern style? No. The reason is far simpler: the virtue people seek is not "neutrality" -- difficult to attain anyway -- but honesty in admitting where you are coming from. Deceit and crookedness get people's goat much more than supposed lack of "nutrality" does. Why do you think the leftwing loon who pretends to be a BJP voter is despised so much? Less for being a leftwinger and more for putting an act that can be seen through anyway!

In conclusion, I am really really suprised that you think it impossible that different individuals can see the outcome of a (contentious) meeting in different ways. If yours is the representaive rightwinger mindset (I think not), then I am afraid the criticism that rightwingers are close-minded is justifiable.

Arvind said...

@Anonymous
"muslims come out and vote and dont care about anything but religion"

How utterly ridiculous. The stupidity of some BJP supporters always amazes me!!

"there is something fishy here"
Yeah it's in ur BRAIN!!

Swapan one humble request. Please don't entertain idle discussion about EVM fraud. If it is substantiated by facts THAT is fine. Otherwise it undermines the INDIAN democracy. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

Here is another view why Jaitley should be kept out of leadership positions until he fights and wins an election.

http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/story.aspx?Title=A+short-cut+to+the+heart+of+democracy&artid=1qxrmf3FXGM=&SectionID=d16Fdk4iJhE=&MainSectionID=HuSUEmcGnyc=&SectionName=aVlZZy44Xq0bJKAA84nwcg==&SEO=

Balaji said...

Aditya Sinha's observation that Arun Jaitley let BJP down in Delhi Assembly elections is spot on. Remember Jaitley assumed in-charge of running that election as well. If he had come off his high horse and lead the party, we could have won Delhi, Jayalalitha might have aligned with us and with that momentum in place, Naveen Patnaik might not have left us. Even Praja Rajyam could have come to us.

And even more importantly, after letting the BJP down in Delhi for his selfish reasons, Jaitley drew the worst lesson from it and wiped clean the entire 2009 election campaign of any mention of terrorism. Almost every Indian city has been brought to its knees by terrorists and the whole country was pissed off with Congress for that and guess what Arun Jaitley does? No mention of terrorism in the campaign! Excellent.

In other news, Outlook magazine's latest edition rates Arun Jaitley among the country's greatest rumor mongers! A credit Jaitley, I'm sure will share with his messenger Shri Swapan Dasgupta!

AK said...

I wonder why the BJP has not come out in support for gay rights. There is no religious Hindu proscription against alternative lifestyles like homosexuality, polygamy or polymory.

Homosexuality was criminalised by the British essentially using a foreign POV. Moily has made a statement today where he wants to defer to minority opinion on gay rights in India. This can very well be used to show how the Congress is essentially the continuation of British rule. In the process, the party can gain the votes of the sexual minorities.

Anonymous said...

ha ha where was arvind when congress used cbi,bribed for parliament votes in jmm scandal and shamelessly repeated history in 2008 with media-mafia even hiding the tape.
they abused governors in jhrkand,bihar,goa after placing their own agents there and quatrochi pal bharadwaj is now guv in knataka whre his congress cheating training will be helpful.

congress appointed chawla and other ecs specially for 2009 and even had a back up prez patil to help out.ec had double stndards against varun arvind u idiot.ec ignored other cases like sonia mautke sudagar and kidwai and ap chief srinivas because they r congress.varun was talking about self defence

bihar topple bill was sent to prez kalam at midnight in russia.

congress is capable of all fraud.ntr 84 and emergency are other egs.

god save india from traitors and jihadi agents like arvind who is sold out or worse a gullible idiot-coward hindu who shits before hate speech by imams and muslims like congress kidwai and sonia but comeout swinging against varun.

shame on u if u r a hindu though u may be a muslim.but u r worse because muslims r honest unlike traitors like u.

and who r u to censor comments punk or even recommend it.

are u scared that the congress fraud will be exposed like in chidambaran's seat.

if u r a hindu,i am ashamed to be one.producing traitors dime a dozen who can be bought or fooled or bullied is a hindu tradition unlike minorities who are always united and lecture hindus about graham staines but do not speak up when hindu leaders die in orissa or hindus r killed and clennsed in kashmir.

Anonymous said...

ap cong chief srinivas hate speech case vs varun.(traitor arvind is ignorant or forgets)

srinivas case not reported.

srini. agreed initially to comments made unlike varun.

then ec said he is disputing
saying it when questioned. and they were waiting for his reply unlike varun who was asked to be prosecuted with an fir by ec and a sunday special ec meeting .

then silence from ec.now when ec qureshi was questioned after elections he said there are too many cases and we cant pursue all.

yeah very convenient only pursue against bjp and varun is a prize because he is rahul's rival.

the same ec took note of sonia's maut ke saudagar comment only after modi objected to its notice against him for replying to sonia.

even there it showed favor to sonia with chawla
against any notice to sonia and even the wording was different in their reprimand to sonia and modi.

idiot traitors like arvind foreget all this.

fraud by congress is a habit of 60 yrs with thousnads of cases which ignorant-idiot traitors like arvind forget or dont know.

congress shuld be hed guilty of all malpractice till proved otherwise.they r experts at loot and jhuth and fareb.

all institutions r owned by corrupt congressis
and they make sure their own bribed and fed frauds r posted in all institutions.guvs, cbi abused for mayawati-mulayam supprt,quatrochi case,even forged papers were submitted to swiss in swiss loot case and argentina cbi drama to let qautrochi oof at taxpayer expense.media r also congres owned and fed and so is ec and prez.

does arvind even know these facts and if so why is he forgetting them or he will call them unsubstantiated like the idiot traitor he is waiting to be paid and fed by congress.and he has the nerve to cesnor comments

these r all fraud actions nd r facts that only ignorant/corrupt/idiot/traitors will miss in analysis.congress will sell india or buy anyone for power based on factual 60 yr record that ahs ruined and looted a poor country which rahul shows to foreign diplomat vistors like amethi after 50 yrs and media compliments him while hiding modi's record.

so what r evms.atlaest the congress record of fraud creates a valid prima facie doubt.

Anonymous said...

swabhimaan.

u say peopel talk negative about muthalik.

i do too,but that does not mean i have to vote for congress-upa crimes against the country and its misperformance for 60 yrs when there is a better choice.

and only idiots by now will believe the delhi-based mafia posing as media.

ndtv sonia singh was in charge of the anti-mthalik campaign on ndtv.her husband is now a minister in upa govt.

does ndtv and other elmedia ever teel the viewers the facts about themselves and their links to congresss and cpm etc.(shuld people in such a corrupt country rule out behind the scenes bribe and reward deals between media and congress.they r not stupid mostly thoug some may be).


instead the mediay lie for election gains about bjp links to rs when rs muthalik contested aginst bjp in kntaka elections.and there r several lies on record against bjp,hindus,varun modi etc for last 25 years by delhi mafia elmedia.all of them are on congress-jihadi-teesta-eveangelical payroll.in pak they said they will take care of bjp and they were licking mush feet at agra for glrifying terrorists.

they r all part of the congress school of fraud.

i can understand idiot traitors like ARVIND missing the obvious fraud of the congress-media-mafia which is fact,and he has the gall to
talk about unsubstantiated stuff when he shamelessly ignores all the fraud by the congress eg guvs,cbi,ec,2 parliament votes,prez appointment etc that actually happened.

but the people whom u talked to shud be speaking about the mafia-media in a negative way
for frauding them.if they bash muthalik instead who is much better than mafia then man they r unjust.

muthalik is not the bjp and he is not good reason to vote for congress anyway because congrress is breaking bread with jihadis who r far more dangerous and is expert at loot nd jhoot.

this is ridiculous and people voted for bjp in knataka.

the muthalik pink chaddi issues r really a minority mobilization signal just like gujarat riots which r being milked to this day along with babri..get it.and that is enough to get the congress a bulk of its 28 % vote to win.

only in hindu majority india with people like arvind and congress is this fraud anti-hindu secularism possible
media job is to report facts.not lie and fraud viewers who are unsuspecting when they r congress mafia disguised as media.

and how

Anonymous said...

comment said

Ask the majority of Gujarat voters who voted for Modi multiple times -- they think it was actually the left-Islamist axis that provoked rioting by justifying the Godhra massacre.

reply

this is really true.even today teeesta is blaming modi for revealing the dead victims.some nerve because she never lets anyone forget babri and post godhra so that the jihadi money keeps pouring in for her which she shares with media gang for propagnda.

the media-mafia have stoked communal hatred by taking sides against hindus for the last 25 years.

roy,barkha,vir saradesai,thapar,gupta sgarika,toi,etc etc
shuld be prosecuted for communal hatred if varun can be for just talking selfdefence.

HINDUS WERE FURIOUS because media treats their lives/rights like dirt like in kashmir that goes unreported to this day an every onesided detail about sadhvi-malegaon and gujarat 2002 is reported to this day regularly.

the media actually were hiding the facts about hindu dead in the train and were silent for days (and even later they rarely mention the cause and only talk post godhra). making hindus angry just like in kandahamal and this incites violence.

Just like in most riots
they hide muslim violence or the perpetrators if they report it.but with hindus they know exactly even if false like they accused hindus for jhabua rape and the knata church bombings done by since convicted muslims.
the conviction the anjuman group just last year was again unreported by mafia frauds.india does not have a elemdia,just a mafia.

this is the state of duplicity and fraud in congress-ruled india.

Anonymous said...

arjun ur commenet on mitra is not surprising.

mitra is being honest and he was a jornalsit.
and has political rights too.

so like in the usa a disclosure is made not to fraud people like all the remaining elmedia like ndtv sardesai who all have political anti-bjplinks not to mention bribes,adverts,rewards,awards,bailout money etc.
u shudl be criticizing sagarika whose dad was a congress babu who gave prannoy a break with wtw
and then prannoy emplyed rajdeep on ndtv as a return favor sardesai's mother is on censor board.

sonia singh's reward for ndtv campaign against bjp is that her husband is now minister

and people like u have no anger for these frauds and single out mitra just like otherwise its bjp,modi,varun hindus in true jiahdi-secular congrssi agent style.

man what duplicity.how do u live with yourself.

mitra needs to be complimented for his honesty.that is the difffernce between the bjp guys and the congress owned media frauds which r 99 % of english mafia.

tehelka is always staging election stunts and tapes which media picks up like a relay batan.

and these evil have the nerve to deny their links to congress with astraight faced when accused of bias.bias is not accurate.the word is fraud of viewrs who give them business.

and u r bashing mitra for honesty.u r a true evil congressman like arvind.

Anonymous said...

arvind, firts analyze the vote dimwit.

28 % is the congress vote most of it muslims ( 8 out of ten)
the other is marxists,christians and the middleclass tarders etc is minuscule compared to those fromthese segments who voted to give bjp 19 %.

dont push propaganda of blaming varun,muthalik.

knataka voted bjp and had no muthalik issue,it probably helped.

the muslims will voet congress no matter what.they are mad at kalyan sigh even now.

get it go back to your elmedia pages and post there with blessing s from them because they require no analysis just secular -jiahdi opinion and would cenosr most posting here.dont paly a double game here.

Anonymous said...

well said ak.atleast u have reasoning unlike congress frauds like arvind who is blind to all the facts from history like jmm scndal parliament vote like the july 2008 vote,and cbi,ec,prez,chawla patilqureshi congress choices ,media mafia fed by congress,guvs abused in bihar,goa jhrakand recently (remeber nt ramarao 1984 topple in AP).


law minsietr bharadwaj is congress choice for knataka guv.so expect operation topple bjp thre.but our arvind will be sleeping in his rathole dreaming about congress impecabble honesty when the nightmare of the congress gold medal winning SUBSTANTIATED record of fraud for power will be obvious to a zeo iq person
all this congress has done for power,not counting emergency.

and evil like arvind ignores all these substantiated facts on record by his evil congress but is worried about evms being unsubstantiated which congress has a record staring all of us except traitor-idiots.

Jitega said...

Swapanda:

I have always been a big fan of you and a reader of your articles for years.

I have now started a new website called JitegaBharat.com to help define the winning ways of 21st century India...doing my bit to awaken the national spirit.

While looking for RSS feeds of columnists to add, I came across the RSS Feeder of your blog & hence have added it to my site (http://jitegabharat.com/forumdisplay.php?f=53).

The RSS Feed allows import of all fields that your RSS settings allow to be exported. This includes Title, Description, Link and the CONTENT of the article.

Please let me know if you have any problems with it. I have always believed that if such articles and thoughts coexist with Cricket & Bollywood type of discussions and articles, then they are more likely to reach Aam Admi & enlighten him. Hence this effort at aggregation of thoughts of people like you.

If you have any other suggestions about the website, please let me know. Your best wishes (ashirvad) and participation will be most appreciated.

Thanks,

Jitega Bharat

Arjun said...

Oldtimer.Diversity of viewpoints in the absence of adequate disclosure regarding one's political relationships and affiliations is what is being questioned. It is not possible clearly enunciate all that one means and hence you have misunderstand some of the connotations of the previous comments. But most of your response is fluff not worth responding to anyway.

BJP_supporter said...

Oldtimer, wrt Balaji or Arjun, I would go with what they say now rather than who they are or what they once said. Agree Balaji says funny stuff often.

WRT Arjun's point - the outcome from the BJP national exec meet is public and there is enough information about it. Reaction to it can not be all 'opinion' because there is enough fact. There is still a question of how these facts are used to form or promote opinions.

A opinion that Jaitley may be the best thing since sliced bread - there is enough facts to see that it is not.

Anonymous said...

All these BJP supporters blaming this or that. Media, Tehelka blah blah. It does not matter. If the BJP cannot counter these and come to power, then it does not deserve to come to power.

Doing nothing and banking on anti incumbency to come to power has failed miserably. BJP is not the default choice after five years on anti incumbency. There is more wrong with the party than just media etc.

Anonymous said...

Where is ur new blog ? I get the feeling that u r now bored of this blog love ? I'm right ?

Anonymous said...

Arjun and Balaji r secular jihadis with no understanding of BJP core voters hence we should ignore their views. Don't waste ur time discussing with them. Just focus on what u believe is right path.

Anonymous said...

anon said

All these BJP supporters blaming this or that. Media, Tehelka blah blah. It does not matter. If the BJP cannot counter these and come to power, then it does not deserve to come to power.

reply

u dont get it do u. media is frauding india by posing as media hiding their congress tshirts . it is a disgrace to the institution of media
.only in india media campaigns for ruling party because they r fed with bribes.usually media is supposed to be watchdog of those in power.

do u even get this.congress can buy all institutions and corrupt them.ec,prez,cbi,media,guvs.

this is like a referee in a game who will make sure that one side will win whatever the other side does.

so as long as the institutions r not neutral,bjp will be at an unfair disdavantage because these corrupt refrees will make congress win and make bjp's job that much harder.

does this corruption happen in any country? and it is amazing u dont feel any anger at the fraud referees.

if it was cricket,u and many others would be burning with anger if a referee was giving lbws and no balls to only one side and not other,even if it is only a game.and with the congress scoundrels who will do anything for power and abuse instiutions for 60 yrs which only idiots and ignorants r unaware of.so firts make sure u know facts about congress record and make sure u have a memory .bihar,jharkand and goa guvs were misused recently.

even the evms shuld be investigated at a minimum.congress will do anything to win.it already had the prz and the ecs chawlaand qureshi in place.

and read the post by anon which shows ec's duplicity aginst modi and varun when its response to otehr identical congress cases was
just lies and excuses.first they said they r waiting for srinivas' reply for his hate hindu speech in apradesh.then they said we cannot follow all cases.but tehy jumped on varun and asked for fir and disqualification to destroy him for boss rahul.

get it genius. ateam can have problems but the umpires also need to be fair.otherwise the team will lose even if it improves.u r amazing.u prefer blaming bjp and not the frauds in media and e c who w a nt congress to win hook or crook.and they r frauding the idiot geniuses like u too.

the bjp has its problems but congress also has problems.

but the media are exploiting the defeat for pushing their agenda when they r enemies of the bjp.only idiots will take advice from their enemies.

sonia owned media and ec fraud agenda is to destroy varun because he is rival to rahul get it.

so they started blaming varun immediately after even if ground level analysis is different.
they always blame modi and guj 2002 because that is their agenda.

Anonymous said...

I am beginning to believe that Advani will sink BJP. He simply does not get it.

Anonymous said...

hy arvind where ru nutcake?

ur a true blue shoot and scoot jiahdi secular.

no analysis or facts to bacck up your opinions.
like the people u criticize who have facts and analysis to back them up.

so muslims dont vote on religion idiot.they why babri,post godhra,osama look alikes,shabano,tasleema,arresst advani,kill karsevaks,banerjee commission cbse = madrasa,legalize bangala deshis,batlahosu terrorists r called martyrs etc r always brought up secular icions like congress,laloo,mulayam,paswan etc.

they know muslims weel unlike idiot arm chair secu jihadis like u.the mullahs issue fatwas to muslims to vote for someone to defeat bjp.

if this is not abuse of religion what is.and all this in the name of fraud secularis. and to u traitor idiots all this democracy and development.yeah fatwa = development and democracy and all those votebank tactics ahve nothing to do with religion.

shame on u for wasting peoles time here without any fact based anayis to back u up.

congress fraud is 60 yr old and to u everything is honest in this country which is rated the biggest swissbank depositor and highest on corruption thans to ur congress.

come back slime and get bashed here.

Arvind said...

Wow a couple of comments by me and I get called evil and traitor in 6 posts LMAO!! Maybe it's the same person who has posted 6 times. In that case, this person needs serious psychiatric treatment. ASAP!!

Arvind said...

@AK
"I wonder why the BJP has not come out in support for gay rights. There is no religious Hindu proscription against alternative lifestyles like homosexuality, polygamy or polymory."

Aha but guez who are against repealing Article 377. VHP!! You can Google it and find out. Oh BTW Deoband has also issued a fatwa against it. Finally these 2 groups (along with Catholic Church to follow I'm pretty sure) have agreed on something LOLZ!!

P.S. I personally don't care if it is repealed. Hinduism, though didn't have an outright ban, generally "looked down upon" such "practices".

BharatRight said...

We totally agree with Mr. Swapan Dasgupta that inclusivity will only take the country and the BJP ahead. We cannot be negative in these positive times. Some of us who were brought up in 70s and 80s do not understand, that people who have been brought up in 90s find India to be doing well without any major issues except lack of governance. We need to recognize this and provide people with an alternative to the dynasty driven politics of Indian centrist parties. Please visit www.bharatright.com to get daily compilation of all nationalist (not Hindutva) articles.

Anonymous said...

ha ha arvind is incapable of rebutting facts about congress,ec etc.the idiot has no clue about corrupt ecs and muslim votebank secular tactics by his icons like laloo,mulayam,congress,paswan. he is counting posts, at least the madrasa educated genius can count.He cannot rebut with facts and analyis which he is incapable as is obvious.

u are being put inyour place genius.u r a barbaric traitor who cant argue with facts or logic. to save india from evil traitors, i am willing to post many more times not for u but to expose u here.

just read your past comments genius.they just
shuv idiot-traitor's opinion on others.even a mad dog's bark is more sensible.

all u do is call names.i give good facts and reasons for u being a idiot and traitor.see your posts' quality

typical u.instead of thanking me for educating barbaric traitors like u to reform,now u have are a psychiatrist when your posts are shamefully substanceless even for kindergarten level comments. After your one line genius namecalling of varun,modi and certificate of honesty for congress frauds( h a ha ha) like u who loot a poor country for 60 yrs or vote blindly based on religion and then complain "oh muslims remain backward.

so the idiot has become a psychiatrist now.he shuld counsel the mirror.

just days ago he claimed to know all about evms
and varun and muslim motivation for vote.

when rebutted,the guy was clueless just like his one line assrtions on varun,modi,evms.no facts no logic nothing.
yeah u can keeep writing defamous idiotic posts against patriots like modi and varun on behalf of jihadis and india's enemies but others cant expose the evil u are and u will now limit posts also,after failing to censor them as if this board is subject to your mulla's fatwa

if u had shame u would go to pakistan like dawwod.u r worse than the mentals in ranchi.
anyone against shivajis like modi and varun are jihadis like aurangzeb.get it slimeball.

isi will love u and at least u will be on the right side of the border like dawood who is better than traitors who live here and plot against brave shivajis like modi and varun.

Arun said...

I don't know about this blogger, but this cartoon sums it up precisely.

http://bigotblog.wordpress.com/2009/05/21/why-bjp-lost/

Hats off to the guy

Anonymous said...

arun, i do not understand people like u.are u aware that congress has ruled this country for 60 yrs.and they r proud that we get an award for slumdog showing india as apoor country.if u r not,then dont post before u get out of ignorant status

now if this was cricket people like u would not give a batsman a chance after failing in 2 innings,but with congress u r willing to give a chance even after 14 failed innings.does this make sense even to an idiot?

bjp cms are doing better job in their terms and bjp is sincere and not crooked.it also inherits the mess made by the 60 yr congress.even god could not undo that,but modi has done it.


if these r your standards that no power,no sanitation,no water,poverty,overpopulataion,cancerous corruption,no law and justice are just some flies making a nuisance,india truly deserves to remain at the bottom of theheap. and people like u shuld be banned from the western countries and even gujarat which has done in 6 years what the congress will not do in the next 10 if not more.

and even all these problems have been created by congress and u take this more lightly than an ipl where u would be furious if a basman or player bungles asking that they bethrown out.

and u miss the point that it is the congress that ahs creatde these problems in the first place and they r just not flies nuisance.

poverty,jihad,terror,child labor is far more serious

no wonder the india cricket team is worldclass even if beaten by srilanka sometimes,and they cant win a gold medal for olympics and the pervert hindu take pride in an award for slumdog that showcases poverty and shows hindus as rioters and ram as evil.

hindus can take all shit and even love it
i am beginning to believe they enjoy it after some posts like arun's here.

but then dont try to migrate to west or gujarat for development if slumdog votebank congress is fine with u.u cant ahve it both ways.
modi was screaming about vikas vs votebank.but media frauds hid that.

and poor arun does not even know or remeber.he is too impressed by caroon entertainment,bollywood and cricket whicche lives for amidst the flies of poverty,hunger,disease while looting apoor country thru swissbank and corruption is fine with him.

Another Cake Walk For Congress said...

With friends like Munde, we do not need enemies. Knowing the growth of MNS, it will be suicide for BJP-Sena to sideline them and benefit the Congress.

"BJP would contest 117 seats and Shiv Sena will field candidates in 171 assembly constituencies out of the total 288 seats," Munde said. He scotched speculations that his party was trying to bring about a patch up between the MNS and Shiv Sena.

http://news.rediff.com/report/2009/jul/25/munde-rules-out-including-mns-in-bjp-sena-combine.htm