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Saturday, July 4, 2009

Section 377 and all that

[This is an extended version of an article for the Sunday Pioneer]

In 1965, when the House of Lords debated the proposal to legalise homosexual relations between consenting adults, the legendary Field Marshal Montgomery proposed a curious amendment. Incensed over what he called “this most abominable bestiality”, he argued the age of consent should be raised to 80! At least, he barked, "one has the old age pension to pay for any blackmail."

It is entirely possible that Monty's very ingenuous suggestion—which, predictably, was turned down by his fellow peers—may find takers among Indian MPs and religious figures agitated by the Delhi High Court’s judgment to de-criminalise gay sex between consenting adults over the age of 21.

That the private conduct of two responsible adults should not be the business of the state—unless it jeopardises national security, public peace and public health or constitutes a fraud—has long been recognised as a tenet of personal freedom. Carnal relations involving the same sex may well be against the laws of nature and, therefore, “unnatural”. But there is nothing in the act that corresponds to the common sense definition of criminality. If voluntary gay sex is deemed criminal, the law may as well attach the tag of criminality to adultery—a move that could well result in considerable discomfiture to some of those who are most indignant about the High Court decision.

If the High Court had confined its judgment to merely removing the stigma of criminality attached to queers (oh how this innocent word has been tarred), it would have done its bit to ensure that laws keep pace with changing social mores. Unfortunately, the High Court went a bit over the top. It was bad enough to inject B.R. Ambedkar, Jawaharlal Nehru and the Sonia Gandhi doctrine of inclusiveness into the pantheon of gay rights, what was more ominous was the incorporation of minority sexual habits into the notion of equality.

It is one thing to accommodate gay sexual preferences into a loose framework of individual freedom so that a minusculity is spared needless harassment, it is a different matter to establish a moral equivalence between same sex relationships and man-woman relationships. The judges may not have intended to put them on par but that is the unintended consequence of pitting an arcane clause of the IPC against some of the fundamental rights in the Constitution.

If the contentious part of section 377 violates the Constitution, as the High Court has decided, why was it allowed to remain in the statutes for a full 59 years? Like the classification of communities into “criminal tribes”, why wasn’t it junked earlier? If the inspiration for section 377 was Victorian morality, why wasn’t it re-examined after the passage of the Sexual Offences Act of 1967 in Britain?

The High Court need not have undertaken surgery with general anaesthesia to remove a tiny wart in our laws.

The reason why 377 persisted for so long owed partly to the colonial inheritance. But far more important, it found a place in the statutes because it corresponded to an unspoken social definition of ordinary decencies. This perception has changed over time, just as polygamy and child marriage have been outlawed for most communities, the age of consent raised progressively and the law of primogeniture scrapped. Legal strictures against consensual adult homosexuality had to go because it was perceived as unjust and unfair.

This is not to suggest that homosexuality is now kosher. The fierce opposition to the High Court judgment from all religious groups (a bizarre example of sarva dharma samabhav) indicate that same sex relationships may be tolerated but they have no wider social sanction. The judgment has merely defined gays as a distinct minority group defined by their sexual preferences.

To my mind this is fair. There is absolutely no reason why decent individuals such as the writer Vikram Seth—who has spoken about his gayness with sensitivity—should have the threat of criminality dangling before him for something that is clearly a very private emotion.

No one wants a repetition of the disagreeable witch-hunt of Oscar Wilde in the 21st century and few appreciate the rabid homophobic utterances of President Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe. Gays have the right to live their life with dignity and without the fear of persecution.

Unfortunately, the High Court judgment has opened the floodgates of what may best be called aggressive gay evangelism. If the experience of the West is anything to go by, it is a matter of time before there are demands—backed by the usual clutch of NGOs and international agencies—to lower the age of consent, accommodate gay marriages within a legal framework and allow the right of adoption to gay couples.

In Britain, for example, the age of consent for voluntary homosexuality was 21 at the time of the Sexual Offences Act of 1967; by 2000, this was lowered to 16 despite the fierces opposition of the House of Lords and the Christian churches; now there are demands for legalising gay marriages and altering the school curricula to show that man-woman relations are not the natural order of society.

Equally insidious, militant gay campaigners have made life impossible for those gays who want to lead private lives without “coming out” and flaunting their sexuality. In 1974, the Gay Liberation Front “outed” E.M. Forster and denounced him as a “downcast gay” for keeping his sexual preferences private.

A perverse in-your-face-gayness has come to define gay activism. Sadly, the media is doing its bit to encourage it.

The invocation of equality and the principles of non-discrimination are a double-edged sword. What may begin as an innocent gesture of accommodation and tolerance has the potential to spin out of control. The gesture of de-criminalising homosexuality—which is different from endorsing it—has to be accompanied by a robust assertion of the state and society’s commitment to family values.

Unless, of course, we see the recognition of gay rights as a precursor to a gender-neutral, non-denominational, secular, uniform civil code—just as the Constitution-makers desired. It may be worth floating the suggestion. It is guaranteed to elicit the same response as Monty's bluster.

The Delhi Court judgment said that faith-driven morality had no place in law. "In our scheme of things, Constitutional morality must outweigh the arguments of public morality, even if it be the majoritarian view." Will the judiciary try and put this principle into practice?

Remember Shah Bano?

205 comments:

1 – 200 of 205   Newer›   Newest»
Oldtimer said...

Dear Swapan.

>>If voluntary gay sex is deemed criminal, the law may as well attach the tag of criminality to adultery

I hear there are indeed moves afoot to make adultery a cognizable offence.

>>A perverse in-your-face-gayness has come to define gay activism. Sadly, the media is doing its bit to encourage it.

I expect media's contrived jubilation to abruptly come to an end the moment a couple of bearded chaps go on a non-violent protest against any moves to repeal 377. Right now "liberal" journos are on a "display your liberalism" parade, but the stunt will end as soon as secular concerns begin to eclipse liberal high-mindedness.

>>Unfortunately, the High Court went a bit over the top.

Are court judgements being delivered with an eye on awards -- like Magsaysay for example? Court judgements must be clinical interpretations of the the law and the constitution. There ought to be no room for delivering sermons.

Rightist Rashtravadi said...

Swapan Ji.

LGBT - Lesbian,Gay,Bisexual,Transgender.

If the foundational credo of the modern state is based on the fundamentals of industrial market economy, parliamentary -oriented democracy,Equal opportunities to all and unmitigated individual freedom, then this scrapping of Art 377 does fit into the last condition.

But the bedrock of any modern state is the common denominator of generally acknowledged decencies, local customs and social sanction with religious decree conferred on any law / statute, whcih essentially necessitates Art 377.

TThis so-called "United progressive " alliance which was all set to embrace this judgement to please the liberals has now developed cold feet , keeping in mind the Minority objections.

If VHP hasd been the lone voice in opposing this judgement, the anti-national, anti-hindu,secular sold-out "dhimmi" media , would have hauled the Hindutva -Wadi's over the coals. Now, you will see the ELM media slowly toning down their stridency and start sucking with the Mullahs.

But, for the First time , this has caused a break in the ranks / alliance of the 4M Axis of evil -> Mullah,Marxist, Macaulayvadi's and the Media.

Best Regards
Rightist-rashtra.blogspot.com
Chennai
lonnie_tvs@hotmail.com

Balaji said...

Excellent article. I think you have covered all the bases.

offstumped said...

Agree, its time to clarify the IPC code and move on. If the psuedo-liberal progressives and their cheer leaders in the media want to make this about something more than privacy and tolerance then they are in for a big surprise, middle India is not amused.

charuvak said...

Swapan da,

It is a interesting case. While debating in another forum, I made the following comments :

This is judicial activism at the worst. The political class is happy because somebody else did their dirty work. If the members of parliament are derelict in discharging their duties as constitution requires them to,
why do we need them?

It is irresponsible of the court to take up on itself what should have been the purview of the legislature. By doing so it abandoned precedent set in earlier judgments. Since when does the court have the sanction to set aside established law and legislate from the bench ?

The Constitution clearly established that the lawmaking belongs to the legislature, that means the political class.

These unelected, political appointees are setting a bad precedent.

The right thing for the court to do would have been to force the legislatures
to act. Is it any surprise that every little thing ends up in court. We are
becoming a litigious society.

I recall from history, an anecdote, it is appropriate I present it here:

This was when Alexander the great, defeated King Purushottam and had to sit in judgement on a dispute brought to him by two people. One
owed money to the other. That was never in dispute. What was in dispute was the speedy recovery of the money. Alexander was surprised that there was so much honesty among the local populace that they did not require promissory notes to transact the loan.

Contrast that to the modern day courts. They are taking upon themselves to write laws. They have exceeded their brief. I am appalled.

Anonymous said...

Excellent post Swapanji. I fully agree with what you have said. Decriminalizing Gay Sex is okay and a welcome step indeed but endorsing it or advertising it, as has been happening, is stretching it a bit far. As you asked promptly, if Constitution overweighs religious beleif as the court is attempted to suggest, then it's high time that we have a Uniform Civil Code in place.

Aryan said...

funny the media is all over Baba Ramdev for suggesting Homosexuality is a disease, while the Mullahs and the Catholic priests shouting against homosexuality are completely ignored. The hazards of being a Sanathan Dharmi I guess? The show also featured a psychiatrist praising the American Psychiatric assocation for out-diseasing gayness in 73. He should have added anti-gay americans helped a much hated Bush win a second term in 2004.

Dont care about gayness, but in-yo-face homoness is definitely a very annoying affliction.

Anonymous said...

"Carnal relations involving the same sex may well be against the laws of nature and therefore, 'unnatural'"

Really? Care to back that dodgy asssertion with citations from credible peer-reviewed scientific journals with a decent impact factor, Swapan?

There are in excess of 1500 species in the animal kingdom that exhibit predominantly homosexual and/or bisexual behaviour. One of humanity's closest relatives, the dwarf chimpanzee, is bisexual. Sex plays a significant role in all communal activities and takes the focus away from violence, which is the most common conflict-resolution tool among other primate groups which exhibit less homosexual behaviour (there is a lesson somewhere here for Hinduvatis, Islamists and Marxists who feed off the insecurities of sexually frustrated males, though that is besides the point).

From killer whales to lions to giraffes to dolphins to ducks to crabs to worms, few species has been found in which homosexual behaviour does not exist. There are a few exceptions, like insects, passerine birds (who form almost half of all bird species) and some small mammals. Another exception is of course, organisms like sea urchins and aphids, which don't have sex at all. Hermaphroditic organisms, are of course, truly bisexual. In fact, the current best research evidence shows that animals that live a completely homosexual life can be found in most species.

Read up.

BW

Suren

Anonymous said...

Today is Gay marriage next day what abortion is alright ! I think because of Western influence our cultural morality everything is going down

Oldtimer said...

Ha! Predictably, Comrade Suren mounted the soapbox. There's always somebody around to out-liberal the other liberals. :-)

Well, if the "law of nature" is survival of the species, homosexuality is indeed against nature. If nature intended you to be gay, dear Suren, you'd have been endowed with the ability either to conceive and bear a child yourself, or to reproduce asexually (assuming you are male).

That homosexuality (for _some_) is not a necessarily acquired sexual orientation does not imply that it serves as "natural" a function as heterosexuality in nature's scheme of things. Why does sex have to be pleasurable, in the first place? If it were a chore like, say, defecating, most species would have been extinct long ago, no?

Suyash said...

Swapan,

This is a disappointing stance to take !! Either you reject gays or accord them equality. You can't say we will "accomodate & tolerate" you...but don't you forget your place !! Who are we to "tolerate" anyone? What gives one group of people the right to "accomodate" another group of people !!

I haven't read up on why and how the caste system came into being ( one of the bane's of Hindu way of life as against many other positives)but I can imagine that whoever created it would have explained away a similar logic to the lower castes...you are a different from us, we will tolerate and accomodate you, but don't expect more !!

And citing a perceived "perverse in your face gayness & gay activism" as a justification for that is like justifying discriminating against Hindu's due to the antics of a Muthalik !! Hypocritic I think.

Vineet said...

Media will need this issue to sell itself for the next 5 years after election of a stable govt. It needs a weekly frenzy to sell itself. This issue can go for weeks, months & ends, with a sad country watching by the sidelines. We thought that a minority loving govt in place, now the media will allow us to live in peace, but trust Jaichands, they would never allow you to do so.

Balaji said...

Suren,

Everything that happens in nature is not within the laws of nature. While the word 'unnatural' is dodgy, I think you are missing the point. Homosexual behaviour serves no useful 'natural' purpose is obvious. And its natural for a species to discourage unproductive or counter-productive sexual behaviour. Remember Darwin?

By urging for tolerance and respect for personal freedom of the LGBT community, the society is being benign. There is no need to abuse such benevolence. At anyrate laws governing a country are not absolute (or say 'god' given) but based on the ethics, the society sets for itself. When the society does so much for the individual, its well within its rights to expect its citizens to be productive. So the best LGBT community can expect is tolerance for their medical condition or say emotional prediliction. Nothing more, nothng less.

Remember in many animal species, the mother kills and eats disformed or unhealthy offsprings and its an acceptable behaviour in those animal communities.

And ofcouse, incest is a very common phenomenon in the animal word including the 'holy' cow. I'm sure you would not want the human society to legalize incest.

liberal said...

Seeing it from a political angle I think that the fundamentalists are going to be on the backfoot this time. Signals emerging from the government quarters also seem to have found some positive substance in the HC ruling.

I would be happy to see the writ of the court to prevail. At the same time I don't know how I would react if some day I find among my near and dear ones developing homosexual tendency. Yet, I knew of a man within my circle who could not fight with the nature in stopping the female hormones developing in him. His breasts would enlarge abnormally. He was a handsome young man but lacked arousal. He used to get injections to stop breast enlargement. It was pitiable to see this person unwillingly fight against the nature.

Therefore, we must deal with the problems scientifically and emotionally first, and then look for spiritual answers if everything else fails.
In the meantime , let religionists and political parties struggle over such issues for their own benefit and existence!

Anonymous said...

Suyash thinks a refusal to accord recognition to homosexuality on the same level as heterosexuality is analogous to caste discrimination. I rather think such discrimination is analogous to the discrimination intrinsic to proselytizing faiths. Ironically though, such discrimination is deemed by "liberals" and Marxist fundamentalists (I am repeating myself) as acceptable. Christian proselytizers have a problem with accepting humans beings as Hindus and Buddhists, so they assert a "right" to convert them to Christianity. One of the Ali brothers said that MK Gandhi was a great person but he was still a lesser human being than the meanest Muslim criminal because he did not proclaim Allah as the only god and Mohammed was his last prophet. This revoltingly discriminatory belief of Christian missions and Islamists to divide the world into "believers" and "unbelievers" notwithstanding, we're told that they have a "right" to proclaim their blatantly offensive beliefs and picking a fault with that discrimination is the problem! In comparison, I think for people to agree to tolerate homosexuals is a noble gesture that Christian/Islamic communalists may well try emulating.

Oldtimer said...

Swapan, are you not into pop music? I was hoping some Indian commentator of repute would say a few kind words about Michael Jackson. At least the phenomenon is worth taking note of. In recent times, no other death was mourned globally as much as MJ's was.

sanjay said...

Swapanda,

This is legislation at it’s worst. I fail to get it by any stretch of imagination why Manmohan Singh government puts its entire weight behind issues of little help to themselves, but nevertheless shakes up even a bored country like India entirely. Like nuclear deal for instance, the singular “achievement” of MMS govt in the previous term. Sure “Nuclear deal for Kalavati” does sound like music to ears, but at the risk of very survival of the Government?? It took the greatest Indian political rope trick in the world to save the MMS govt. Though with the-friends-of-the-congress-media well in place, the issue was conveniently brushed beneath the carpet without much collateral damage, but in hindsight was it all worth that is debatable.

And now we have judiciary legislating by proxy for the gay rights, it seems this is the only problem separating India from Utopia. Only two scenarios can justify this. One, we want to adopt wests legislations without wasting time in debates, why to reinvent the wheel anyway?? Two, personal interests are overriding national interests. At least I can't think of a third scenario.

Indian Nationalist said...

Swapan,

You seem to have moved from Ram Janmabhoomi supporter (in the 90s to 2000) and a Hindutve supporter to a Secular supporter and a muslim promoter.

Today you have moved to Gay and queer supporter.

I predict that your career will be over in the next couple of years.

People like you who change colors with changing seasons are not loyal to themselves, how can you expect them to be loyal to their family, their friends, their society and lastly to the country?.

Post my comment if you dare.

Thank you
Indianpatriot

Aryan said...

@indian patriot/nationalist

One can be ram jhanmabhoomi supporter, true secular supporter not the hindu hating variety, and gay tolerator all at the same time. Its not mutually exclusive, and it aint that complicated.

Anonymous said...

whres arvindan ?

In a move that could have a far-reaching impact on how future elections are conducted in the country, the Election Commission of India
(ECI) is veering round to the view that Electronic Voting Machines (EVMs) can be tampered with.

Omesh Saigal, a 1964 batch IAS officer and alumnus of IIT Delhi, who is considered an expert on EVMs, gave a convincing presentation to the top EC officials on Friday morning.

According to the sources, Saigal demonstrated with his software that by keying in a certain code number, one could ensure that every fifth vote cast in a particular polling booth goes in favour of a particular candidate or party.



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Anonymous said...

As libertarians, we should support any move that keeps govt out of both board rooms and bed rooms! less govt interference in personal matters, better for everyone except the hafta-collecting police and their partners in "inclusive" share of the loot.

Anonymous said...

Great budget by the Congress govt. Just dole outs. Middle class work hard, pay taxes and they will be handed out to minorities , vote banks etc. Fiscal deficit 6.8%. And there is talk of 9% growth.

The govt and the country will be of the level that elects them. Everyone knows who votes for Congress. So, don't be surprised by what you get.
Get ready for 20 years of this. Who knows maybe 50 years. Rahul Baba's kids should also rule Indians, why not?

Anshuman Patel said...

I second your thought OldTimer..even I was hoping Swapan would write a few words about MJ..that chap rocked the world!

Anonymous said...

On one hand the world is fighting AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases and many believe that this may lead to the extinction of the human race but on the other hand we ourselves are eagre and excited to see our doom by allowing unnatural sex and legalising the same. In the last 62 years since our Independence we have been able to create a race of english speaking wild animals who want animal traits for human beings and still call themselves progressive. We won't be surprised if some people say tommorrow that they have the right to go naked and dress can't be imposed on them and few more will demand right to sex as a fundamental right.

Incognito said...

This judgement is quite inconsequential.
Mere recognition of homosexuality won't liberate them.
They need a far more tenacious peice of legislation to feel distantly secure.
I don't have a belligerent stance against homos, but thats only because I don't know any.

All in all:
Public display of homosexuality should be made illegal.

Same sex marriage should not be
legalised/Subject to sex-change procedure.

applepiecrust said...

I sent the full version of this to the Pioneer in response to your editorial (these are excerpts). I would be gratified if you read it, and perhaps, responded to it:

Mr. Dasgupta is concerned about “in-your-face-gayness” and militant gay activism, and believes all gay activism to be defined by this “perverseness.” This concern can be addressed with two brief points. The first is that some amount of what he terms “in-your-face-gayness” is required for increasing the visibility of an otherwise invisible minority. The second is simply that not much gay activism is militant or “in-your-face” at all – a lot of this activism is happening in the courtrooms, on editorial pages such as these, and in day-to-day lives of people living their lives honestly and openly.
He further has the audacity to claim that “the invocation of equality and the principles of non-discrimination” with regards to LGBT rights might be a “double-edged sword” as the assertiveness and desire for equality by the LGBT rights movement could very well “spin out of control.” Perhaps Mr. Dasgupta, and others that hold similar beliefs as him, need to understand that equal rights are not a zero-sum game. When a particular minority group gains equal rights, it does not necessarily come at the cost of those same rights that were already afforded to the majority or to other minority groups. For instance, the legalizing of gay marriages does not undermine the validity or sanctity of heterosexual marriages, and altering school curricula to remove heteronormative assumptions does not in any way indicate, as Mr. Dasgupta appears to believe, that “man-woman relations are not the natural order of society.”
Perhaps the reason some heterosexual (or male or upper-caste or rich) people question the needs and demands of minority groups fighting for equal rights is simply because they are worried not about losing their own rights, but about losing the privilege that their status as a part of the majority with exclusive rights had guaranteed them. To use a rather politically incorrect analogy, finding that their domestic help has happened upon an inheritance that makes him richer than they are would decidedly make most people uncomfortable, because it forces them to question what they took for granted about their personal superiority that came from being wealthier, and thus, more privileged. Mr. Dasgupta’s knee-jerk reaction to LGBT communities fighting from equality might stem from a similar concern – what happens to his heterosexual privilege when those homosexuals could have the same rights as he presently does, when their relationships are recognized as valid as his, when their human dignity is considered every bit as respectable as his own?
Decriminalization of homosexual behavior may indeed serve as the starting point for further LGBT activism in the country – indeed, moving towards full equality, as part of the same “gender-neutral, non-denominational, secular, uniform civil code”, in Mr. Dasgupta’s own words, desired by the makers of our Constitution. And since it’s not a zero-sum game that we are playing, perhaps this full equality for sexual and gender minorities would only strengthen the unity of the country.

Anonymous said...

unfortunately china does not have a pretty hindu mafia like our psecularists in politics,media and academia all intellectual humanities (lowest 50% to 60 % cutoff types to get into delhi university ) who come on tv and write in print actually confusing english literacy with brains.

china report

At least 129 people were killed as riots erupted in northwest China where protesters from the
ethnic Muslim Uighur community went on rampage, prompting a state crackdown.

The violence in Urumqi, the capital of Xinjiang state, has left 129 people dead and injured 816 others, state-owned Xinhua news agency reported on Monday quoting the regional public security department.

Police cracked down on protesters on Sunday night, arresting several hundred of them, "including more than ten key figures who fanned the unrest on Sunday," the official said.

Xinhua said police was still searching for about 90 other key figures in the city.

China's state television broadcast images of the riots, with people ransacking public property and smashing vehicles.

The protesters were demanding a probe into a fight between Uighurs and Han Chinese workers at a southern China factory last month that had left two people dead.

Riots had erupted in the region ahead of the Olympics last August. Seventeen policemen were killed in Kashgar on August 4 in what China described as a "terrorist" attack.

Anonymous said...

where is confident genius know all arvindan ?

anon said, Everyone knows who votes for Congress. So, don't be surprised by what you get.


congress has been doing this for 60 yrs.pretty converted hindus such as muslims are 80 % of congress overall 28 % vote with marxists,christians and stupid idiotic gullible ignorant hindus being the rest.this is enough to get congress majority again and again if left loses in kerala and bengal.

the last mentioned genius hindus voted congresss based on ugly hindus like muthalik,varun,modi,pub tehelka-media preelection drama by pretty hindu secular mafia.

by the way ugly hindu varun
is on pretty islamic converted hindu terrorist target list.

two attempts foiled.ugly hindus like him shuld
be punished in the holy islamic tradition for daring to defend kafir hindus and hindustan from jihad.

shivaji did not have to contend with this hindu nmaed psecular politician-media mafia like modi has to.

poor aurangzeb.shuld have lived after the british and after the west further dhimmified and macaulayed hindus into gorgeous hindus like barkha,rajdeep,balaji,ankan,arvind,vir,prannoy,vinod mehta,etc etc whose support for islamic takeover of india is well appreciated even by osama and taliban.they dont need to fight.india is already under islamic rule.hindus r congenital losers and slaves.so what atleast they r pretty and have their priorities right like putting modern day shivajis like modi,varun in their place.

poor aurangzeb did not have it so good.

Anonymous said...

pretty hindus on SC apologize under muslim pressure and even invalidate court order just like they agreed to SIT petition of another pretty converted-by-marriage hindu jihadi named teesta who first got nanvati commision which cleared modi and then got sit.

all muslims do is scream and threaten pretty hindus and they capitulate like in shahbano,calcutta airport-mosqueand now sc .ofcourse many pretty hindus like balaji-arvindan and media mafia will support them.ppor sikhs dont have the numbers to get justice even if they have the fighting spirit.and hindus have the numbers but unfortunately too many pretty hindu secular traitors like balaji,arvind,ankan media-mafia will conspire to resist or distract or demotivate hindus by screaming about ugly hindu issue to screw priorities.congratulations pretty hindus,now even the sc has capitulated.only in hindu india.

SC judge apologises for 'Taliban' comment

Press Trust of India, Monday July 6, 2009, New Delhi


Under criticism from Muslim groups, Supreme Court judge Justice Markandeya Katju on Monday apologised for his controversial comments that Muslim students cannot insist on sporting beards as it would lead to "Talibanisation" of the country.

A bench of Justices R V Raveendran and Markandeya Katju also withdrew the order passed by it on March 30 in which it had dismissed the petition filed by a student challenging the directive of a convent school in Madhya Pradesh that Muslims cannot sport beard.

"During the hearing, certain observations were made by one of us (Justice Markandeya Katju). His intentions were not to offend anyone. However, if any one's feeling has been hurt, he apologises and expresses regret in the matter," the bench said in an order.

The apex court said since the petitioner Mohd Saleem had expressed apprehension that one of the judges (Katju) was biased it was requesting the Chief Justice of India to place the matter before another bench for hearing.

"The review petition expresses apprehension that one of the judges was biased against the petitioner. We are of the view that the matter should be heard by another bench. We therefore, withdraw the order of March 30, 2009," the apex court said while referring the matter to another bench for a fresh hearing.

Nirmala Convent High School, Vidisha, Madhya Pradesh, had removed Mohd Saleem, a 10th class student, after he refused to shave his beard on the ground that it was mandatory in Islam.

CONGRATS TO ANKAN,BALAJI,ARVIND,ARUN on this report.keep fighting the ugly hindus and send ladoos to your pals on SC and media and soon we will be a land of really pretty hindus cleansed and extinct like in kashmir,pakistan and bangladesh.impressive progress after 60 yrs of congress but it is important to get rid of varun and modi as karan thapar said let us take out modi nonelectorally after he won in 2007.yeah.

Nitin said...

So what is wrong if some one says BJP is run by 6 jounalist. For these six people their TRP's are important not issues. They will change the sides. They will take the right (which suits their career) side, always! They run the party also :)

The Maverick said...

Swapan Da,

As a society, we always celebrate anything that has to do with appeasing the minorities whether it is religious, sexual, etc. This is an example.

Deepak said...

Swapanda

This is not just ridiculous, but sickening and disgusting. I was watching Barkha Dutt's program, where all the gays and other creeps were celebrating and Barkha as usual leading the cheer brigade. The poor Church guy who was there was laughed at by Barkha herself. So much for liberal media and Padma Shrees.

The behaviour of the media has been unbelievable. One wonders what these liberal anchors would do if their children told them they were gay. More than a high court verdict, the programs seemed like a recruitment drive for gays.

And as usual the Bollywood brigade, third-rate out-of-works like Celina Jaitley jumped into the fray to showcase themselves as friends of queers.

What next - legalisation of prostitution, opening of brothel chains, legalisation of pornography, porn theatres and channels, gay marriages. Goodbye Bharat and Hello Liberal India!

Anonymous said...

your connection between uniform civil code and hte naz jdugment is not unfounded. given the rhetoric in teh judgment, if the supreme court accepts it and concretises it into law, the judiciary will have no option but to strike down personal laws. the problem with personal laws is exactly the same as the problem with 377 - denial of liberal freedoms on the sole basis of religious dogma. those who want a uniform civil code should celebrate this judgment and ensure that it is accepted by the supreme court.

Anonymous said...

Applepiecrust,

Homosexual activity was deemed a crime by law in the first place to deter people from indulging in it. Homosexual behavior has always been there in every society since ages, and has always been a taboo at least in India, there is no proof that it was socially accepted in any era. Whereas the common belief is that it is unnatural and serves no useful purpose, and common beliefs like inertia doesn’t change unless done so conspicuously and is always recorded, for e.g. people changed their beliefs on the flatness of earth only when it was conclusively proven.

Now, why do you think society will change their beliefs without seeing your postulate going through and passing all the processes?? But believe me India has always been a tolerant country and few are actually interested what goes on in somebody’s bedroom, unless he makes a song and dance about it. Remember eleventh commandment – Just don’t get caught.

Maverick said...

Does this judgement deserve attention.

It is very similar to female feoticide moving to page 5 and Miss India moving to page 1.

As usual as Indians we have got our priorities wrong.

Anonymous said...

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/whither-377/485783/

• The Delhi high court judgment on Section 377 is not only constitutionally correct but also necessary to annul anomalies of personal laws in India. The judgment is based on the premise that all laws which discriminate against individuals on grounds of sex and sexuality would violate constitutionally-granted fundamental rights. The judgment doesn’t say anything about the ethical or social values of homosexuality. I, therefore, wish that this case is carried to the Supreme Court where, in my opinion, the view of the Delhi high court is likely to be upheld. If this happens, not only homosexuals but also women of all communities will be protected from alleged discriminatory provisions of their personal laws. Also, those who apprehend that this judgment would trivialise the institution of marriage are misinformed.

— T.U. Mehta

Former Chief Justice (Retd) High Court of Himachal Pardesh

Anonymous said...

off topic but want to post on current blog

ugly chinese have problem with minority muslims too.but there instead of filing FIR and disqualifying any ugly chinese equivalent of varun thru secular mafia like congress owned ec, congress, and congress mafia-media.

note how the gorgeous muslims started it as usual( eg godhra train)and now claiming victim hood for the usual propaganda though chinese
do not have pretty hindus like balaji and arvind and rajdeep and vir and roy etc etc to fight too.

we should export our teestas and barkhas and rajdeeps and virs and arnabs and balaji and arvind and the chinese will understand how gorgeous the muslims are and how ugly the chinese majority are.

arvind will also certify that muslims r very modern unlike the hindu bjp( eg mosque at calcutta airport).Now with the hindu tag,how can u be modern.islamic countries are so educated democratic secular but not the hindu bjp with people like nano modi.just that word hindu gives us the creeps. so ugly resisting modern jihadis like varun and modi with risk to their lives for the sake of india
and also having to fight traitors like arvind and secular mafia.see police protect them just like gujarat police killing 300 hindus( mafia hides this).maybe they can find some muslim crying to use as poster boy like our qutbuddin who is back in gujarat from secular wbengal.

now pretty hindu jokers here will not know facts but will make pompous fashionable statements to like varun bad,muthalik bad,assertive selfdefending hindu bad ,bjp bad

report.

The new violence in Xinjiang's capital erupted only a few hours after the city's top officials told reporters the streets in Urumqi were returning to normal following a riot that killed 156 people Sunday. The officials also said more than 1,000 suspects had been rounded up since the spasm of attacks by Muslim Uighurs against Han Chinese, the ethnic majority.

The chaos returned when hundreds of young Han men seeking revenge began gathering on sidewalks and spent most of the afternoon marching through the streets, smashing windows of Muslim restaurants and trying to push past police cordons protecting minority neighborhoods. Riot police successfully fought them back with volleys of tear gas and a massive show of force.

Anonymous said...

hey swapan was rr patil a ugly hindu when he banned dance bars and also the livelihood of poor families.

but also remember he also said that only a few
people died in 26-11 and most imporantly he gave money to terrorist ishrat's family for the votebank.

so that shuld alone make him a pretty hindu like the secular mafia who glorified sorabuddin as a romantic in "the tajmahal with his wife" photo.

Anonymous said...

old timer u do get carried away by petty emotions. and warp priorities and worse analysis.

eg the mj post which is not a big deal.

but your post in favor of the fraud humanities crowd pretending to be intellectual in media-mafia was a serious impairement of letting small emotions interfering on the side of fraud and egotism of people who r lucky to even have jobs because of the corrupt secular congress dispensation.

eg jnu guys like dip gupta,prannoy roy who got his WTW by sucking up to congress babu bhaskar ghose( sagarika's dad),debonair vinod mehta,vir whose boss shobana is a congress peon,toi which was running an ad for congress etc etc.

by the way humanities cutoff is the lowest at 50-60 %.now go and sob for these guys in a country whre most children cant even get education and child labor is rampant.

in fact go and tell these lowest scorers that in 4 years with a humanities degree and no job,they will find a job on corrupt secular media mafia on the qualification that they cant the psec mantra hindu bad-muslim good,bjp bad-congress good and pakis are poeple like us even if seculars vinodmehta and kuldeep nayar ran away.

and yes tell them u believe they are intellectuals despite their marks even if they commit the section 420 crime of frauding india
and hiding facts to do propagnada,yeah with low 50-60 % score u have great analytical skills to tell a billion smarter people whom to vote by hiding facts.What ego and self delusion?shobha de,dip gupta,nandita-ba geography das.

why dont they stick to their private arts majors.nadndita has acting but what will rajdeep and barkha and vir do?

and old timer feels sorry for this crowd even if any idiot will agree that everyone has strenghts and weaknesses and one sticks to what onesggod at.If I cant play cricket,i dont advise people who r better than me.

sob sob.

Oldtimer said...

>>old timer u do get carried away by petty emotions. and warp priorities and worse analysis.

Michael Jackson is a gazillion times more adulation worthy than Rahul Gandhi, dear Anonymous, just to pick an example comparison. It's a separate debate if pop music is worthy of respect, or worthy of respect on a scale equal to the classical. Musical beauty is in the ear of the listener, I guess. There's no doubt however that MJ was a genius artist in the pop genre. Why do millions across the globe cutting across racial and linguistic barriers adore him so much? Because his music gave, and continues to deliver, private and public moments of joy far in excess in value terms of what was paid for it. I always considered enjoying his music a right priority. :)

Incidentally, it would help if you learn to write coherent paragraphs, capitalized appropriately, and otherwise paid some attention to elementary rules of grammar. It's taxing to read your stuff.

BharatRight.com said...

As someone said in the comments, media has been sheepishly quiet after the objections from Islamic & Christian clergy. It would have on the opposite side of the noise-o-meter, if VHP had opposed this judgement.

At the same time, we do see some point with the clergy that we do not want judiciary to give any endorsement to gays. Judiciary is right that consensual sex cannot be a criminal activity. But, that's all that can be done about this. Nothing more. If gay-right activists want any further recognition of any sort, they can only do by convincing the majority of this country and get a law passed in the parliament. Judiciary should not be intervening in morality issues, unless they find an issue totally ultra-vires the constitution.

Anonymous said...

ot my post was not about MJ per se.I believe the arts is very subjective an d so is music.
sure mj was popular and i liked him too.

i disagree that swapan shuld write about mj
because there are many geniuses in the music world.I personally believe the singers are less important than the musicians but get less credit even in india.and also the media is flooded with MJ right now and charity begins at home.

why not shanker jaikishan ?

my main point was that u let your soft petty emotions interfere with cold hard dispassionate facts and analysis and that detracts.

mj blog or not.i am indifferent.

i cant do much about the typing clarity.i appreciate anyone who bears with that.

i need to write fast to release my passion for the issues i value and do it as quickly as possible because of other priorities.

sanjay said...

Mr. Mehta,
Article 377 may not be the only fault in the Lord Macaulay drafted Indian Penal Code. In fact a serious study needs to be carried out as to why the legal system in India is such a non starter that the authorities have failed to uphold any laws or rules whatsoever in letter and spirit, their seems to be more loopholes than the law themselves, which nevertheless are no less in numbers, may be it is humanly impossible to expect our police to uphold the sanctity of the penal code when the code itself is faulty, and all we hear as excuse is that either there are not enough policeman or are not well equipped enough. It should also be studied if redrafting the entire IPC from scratch by taking inputs from the people on ground can solve the problem to some extent at least.
But the point I want to make is that how should we go about correcting what some of us think is wrong with the laws, should it be done by the courts or the parliament? In this particular case the role of the govt was that Home ministry and Health ministry were two of the respondents to the query by the court, and the Babus of the two ministry gave contradictory reply to the court. Now, should our laws be decided by the competency/incompetency of our Babus??

Anonymous said...

- Best speakers from BJP opt out of budget debate
- Modi yet to visit liquor victims

Model party, model leader... hahahahaha~

Anonymous said...

i guess the next step would be reservations for "sexual minorities"

Anonymous said...

Complete OT, I couldn't resist sharing this pic with the readers. The website has mentioned it all time great pic. Since we r discussing boring topic hope it'll light up the mood.

http://gawker.com/5311472/

I think debate whether Obama is an ass(et) for America will further rage after this!! lolz

Anonymous said...

Sorry I'm going OT again..I've penchant for nailing left-liberals so I can't let go such rare opportunity. Obama peek an ass(et)has become hot topic of debate in American electronic media. So felt I should share these links with u also.

And yes one more thing it's not us Right-wingers who r tolerating left-liberal shits. Its happening in America also. Check other links also to understand the matter wholly. Good thing for American Right-wingers is that they have got Fox news, we have got none.


http://gawker.com/5311959/a-frame+by+frame-analysis-of-obamas-alleged-ass+peek/gallery/

http://www.bayoubuzz.com/News/Louisiana/Politics/CBS_ABC_Broadcast__News_Ratings_Show_Turn_Off_Of_Liberal_Bias__9070.asp

In the below link one left-liberal is vomiting poison against Fox b'coz it's the only network which is less-liberal compares to other network so other liberal guys hate it.Read it and enjoy his pain. Kash apna bhi Fox hota....

http://www.examiner.com/x-9210-Boston-Liberal-Examiner~y2009m6d23-Obamacare-and-ABC-News--leftwing-infomercial-or-is-Fox-News-just-griping-for-ratings

The report in the below link is of 2005. U can make ur judgement. I mean they have changed or not since then. I think media has tilted to left more , especially after ranter Obama's victory.

http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/Media-Bias-Is-Real-Finds-UCLA-6664.aspx

Random link to read:

http://newsbusters.org/

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=37059

Anonymous said...

Arvind challeneged.

evm petition in court.

these guys shuld have taken arvind's permission before having this idle discussion in court..how can anyone challenge arvind's fatwa giving a certificate to evms.





Improve EVMs or junk them, says PIL
11 Jul 2009, 0036 hrs IST, TNN

Print Email Discuss Share Save Comment Text:



NEW DELHI: Concerned over the technical glitches allegedly found in the functioning of EVMs by expert panels engaged by the Election Commission, a
PIL in the Supreme Court suggested that it should be back to ballots.

It cited a March 2009 judgment of German Supreme Court, which on the basis of identical apprehensions expressed there on the possibility of manipulations had banned EVMs and replaced it with ballot papers.

The PIL, moved through counsel Sanjay Parikh, said the best way of using EVMs would be to equip the machine with a paper so that it registers the vote cast by the voter immediately after he presses the button.

This way, one could even resort to recount in case of doubtful margins or allegations of manipulation, he said. With present-day EVMs, one could only do recalculation not recounting of votes, the petitioner said.

Airing apprehensions identical to that of Leader of Opposition L K Advani, the petitioner said if the EC could not ensure a fool-proof EVM to the voters, then it would be better to revert to ballot papers like Germany.

The PIL also sought setting up of an expert panel to go into all aspects to make recording of votes proper in an EVM, which at present appeared to be quite doubtful especially when there was a possibility of manipulating the programming of the machines to engineer bogus votes.

Anonymous said...

anon says

"Best speakers from BJP opt out of budget debate
- Modi yet to visit liquor victims

Model party, model leader... hahahahaha~"


this is a typical mullah marxist bjp hater with no brains,only hatred.the idiot thinks model congress has made india a model country after 60 yrs in charge.see his level of analysis.

congress misrule of loot and fraud after 60 yrs.
no sanitation,no power,no water,no education,child labor after 60 yrs and this genius blames modi who is apprecaited by neutral economic analysts,ratan tata voted with his nano,many indians including crores of gujaratis reeelcet modi except the traitors like jihadis and commies who hate a patriot who is incorruptible unlike swiss depositor congress.

congress bribes mps for vote twice not once,even after jharkand mukti morcha case.

jmm briber suitcase buta singh was made governor in bihar to topple nda with midnight meeting and signature to kalam in russia.

emergency,thousnads of riots,60,000 dead in terror and applauding traitor antulay for votebank.


congress has betrayed sikh victims after killing them 25 years on.

congress has used muslim vote thru religous votebank strategy like tasleema and shahbano etc
and kept mulims backward after stealing their votes for 60 yrs.

congress abused institutions
cbi,guvs,ec,made nation so corrupt
that india has swisss deposits morethan next four countries combined.
gold medal for corruption and with 1 billion people we cant win medals in olympics.

shameless congress is proud of poverty and slumdog award,as long a s their
bratty children like jessica lal killer gets his drinks on time or kills waitress.

while crores of children go hungry,without water and have to work because congress has no education to give them and feeds of poverty and ignorance.

like this isi traitor who will not even know all these facts and has the nerve to rake up 1 liqour incident against modi.

as if no liquor incidents happen and congress goonda cms visit victims.sonia and mms did not visit terror victims who were killled thanks to their muslim jhadi policy.

congress goons killed sikhs and media mafia call
it hindu sikh riot instead of congress sikh riot.

party of murders looters and frauds.only isi agents will be happy with a party that loots the poor.what kind of evil loots the poor and deposits money in swissbanks.

modi does not loot poor and actually lives with them in summer heat in villages .

only 7th century mullahs or lunatic marxists will hate patriot modi and get paid by isi.eg teesta jiahdi setalvad paid by isi and arabia and married to jihadi.

Anonymous said...

(Forced) slwo death of India's main opposition party

Here is a very perceptive article:

http://newsinsight.net/archivedebates/nat2.asp?recno=1860&ctg=Politics

Soooooooooo sad for countless sympathisers but as I said earlier, we need a new party. - Gopi

Anonymous said...

To anonymous who is behind Arvind's ass.
Listen man I'm noticing for quite a while that u r behind Arvind's ass for "petty" reason. I just wanna say give him a break yaar..ab kya bacche ki jaan loge ? He's just another illegal offspring of Mcaulay types. Our tirade won't affect them much.

We need to overpower them through intellectuality.

I'm all for fantism, communalism ( I don't think communalism is equal to rioting, it's a word drived from community I "guess", if it's the case --I'm sure it's case-- then I'm proud to say that as a right-winger I support Hindu "community" and its legimate demands if that makes me communal so be it. I swear, I don't care what commoners or dominaant left-liberals think of me. I flaunt my communalism in public very boldly. I'm not a darpok like Swapan or BJP leaders who go on backfoot on the mention of this word) and Hindutva but our arguments in support of these things must be backed by factually correct "intellectual" arguments not emotional or like that type. So that we can scupper likes of Guha, Sanghvi or other left liberal traitors.

Our lack of intellectuality, aggresiveness, friends like Swapan, Kulkarni r our biggest hindrace in growth and a factor in recent downfall.

Anonymous said...

These three guys Jaswant, Yashwant and Arun Shourie should be thrown out of the party for indiscipline.

These guys attacked Congress budget and the nuclear deal for the last five years. What good did it do for the BJP. These guys have no standing as leaders.

They are upset since they were bypassed for leader of opposition roles. Hence they want to talk about accountability.

Anonymous said...

Anon (Jul 11, 3:51 AM) calls me "mullah marxist bjp hater with no brains, only hatred. the idiot..." This is so typical of our khakinickers - any time you dissent from Official line, you are a traitor - any wonder they are licking xxxx despite us having a sub-par UPA I Govt. People of India pref that dogdy govt / alliance to the one led by a model party with a model leader waiting in the wings.
FYI, I have been against Congress and Dynasty from 1969 (when I started taking interest in politics) and have remained so since then). I have given big contribution (in 7-digit) to BJP, VKP, Bhuj relief, Kargil, etc. Big support to the excellent work of Voice of India, K Elst etc. A nephew was BJP MP in the 1996 LS. So, I do not need lecture about these things from anyone. I do not know what has been your contribution except abusing those refuse to follow the party line. I would be glad to be proved wrong.
Howver, all that does not blind me to follies of RSS, BJP, VHP, goons / thugs of BD and various other Senes and Parishads and misdeeds of Khaki leadership. And, no, I am not a fan of Modi, whose acts of ommission / cimmission in 2002 plus the thugish rantings of Togadia, Kishore, Singhal were the principal cause for NDA's defeat in 2004. Nor do I consider Modi some kind of Messiah. I lived in Gujarat in 1981-85 and even then it had amongst the best roads, infra etc. The rest of your ranting is beneath any comment.
I msut say that, if BJP has in its ranks more likes of you, it can kiss goodbye to rulling India again.
- Gopi

Deshabhakta said...

When the country should be discussing article 370, section 377 is being discussed :(
We seem to have enough homosexuals and their supporters in this country than nationalists who could run a campaign/mass movement to abolish article 370. Our dear ELM - will its cameras be willing to turn towards a protest against 370, if ever it happens?
Manya Shyama Prasad Mukharjee's martyrdom day was 'celebrated' recently. Why didnt the so called nationalists start a nationwide mass movement for abolition of article 370? In my opinion, that would have been a great tribute to Mukherjee ji's martyrdom.

Anonymous said...

I too support the high court judgement. The state has no business to interfere in ones sexual preference. All the Hindu leaders have no business doing the loud protest. They may say that homosexuality is immoral or is against the Hindu religion. But they have no business equating morality with criminality. There is a vast difference between the two.

Srinivas

Oldtimer said...

>>They may say that homosexuality is immoral or is against the Hindu religion.

Now, this is a very interesting point. I have been looking for some "scriptural" Hindu injunction against gays, but have not been able to find any so far. Even the Manu Smriti -- the (partly apocryphal) text that Marxist and Christian fundamentalists try to portray as some sort of Hindu shariat -- does not breath fire against homosexuality the way Mosaic law does. In fact, evidence suggests that classical India was fairly tolerant of gays and lesbians. It definitely did not elevate same-sex love to the status of heterosexual union, but there was no condemnation of it either.

I hypothesize that Hinduism quietly accepts the fact that a minority of population is born with a homosexual orientation. This theory should not be difficult to accept for those Hindus who see in the ten avtars of Vishnu the evolution of life on Earth depicted. Surely, if our ancients were clever enough to have thought of natural selection far ahead of Darwin, they might also have thought it possible that some genetic mutations would lead to homosexuality ;-)

But seriously, 377 is a relic of Christian prejudices and Christian phobias. Don't forget that it is a British relic. Christianity considers man sinful by nature and promises salvation if Jesus (only) is accepted as savior. Yet, ironically, homosexuality is a sin that Christianity cannot come to terms with. God got pretty mad at gays and so destroyed the city of Sodom. Death is the punishment awarded to gays in Old Testament. None of this homophobia is relevant to Hinduism.

The Supreme Court has referred the appeal against 377 to the government. It will be interesting to see what the government's response will be. But then again, there's probably nothing suspensful here considering the facts that A) the government is virtually headed by a Roman Catholic and B) on top of it she owes her position in no small part to a Muslim vote bank.

While on the subject, why isn't Comrade Barkha Dutt soliciting the views of renowned rights activist "Father" Cedric Prakash on the subject of 377? I'm more interested in the opinion of "rights activists" than of religious leaders.

Sudhir said...

Swapanda

Please look at the Shopian incident of Kashmir.

http://www.hindu.com/2009/07/12/stories/2009071255830800.htm

In this article, Pravin Swami of HINDU writes as to how media fanned the violence in Shopian. All the media have suppressed the news about this Justice Muzaffar Jan Commission of Enquiry. I hope to see an article on Dailypioneer regarding this incident.

Some of the highlights of this article

"Efforts were also made by sections of the media to suggest that the local police may have sought to hush up the case on the orders of their superior. Journalists in particular turned on Constable Mohammad Yaseen, who was reported to have made several phone calls to superiors even as a search for the victims’ bodies was underway — evidence, it was argued, of the unusual interest of his bosses in the case.

In fact, the Commission found, Mr. Yaseen had made only four calls during the whole day and none between 10 p.m. on June 29, when the search for the victims began, until 6 a.m. on June 30, when the bodies were found."

"For the most part, Justice Jan found, the media misrepresented forensic evidence. Media accounts insisted that both women appeared to have been badly beaten and gang raped. However, the Jan Commission states, pathologists found no evidence to support the proposition of gang rape. Moreover, only one victim’s body was found to bear visible external injuries. Claims that one victim was pregnant at the time of her death, Justice Jan states, were also wrong.

Perhaps in order to buttress claims that the two women had been raped before they were killed, some journalists asserted that their clothes were torn. However, witnesses interviewed by the Jan Commission said that the women’s Feran and shalwar were intact."

"Based on the accounts of individuals claiming to be eyewitnesses, newspapers said that one victim’s forehead had been smeared with sindoor — an allegation that suggested that the rapists were Hindus, and the rape itself macabre religion-driven hate crime. However, the Commission noted, the red marks on her forehead were in fact blood from a head wound. “The flow of blood,” the report states, “was shamefully distorted and projected as a mark of sindoor.”"

(I have also posted this on Kanchan blog also)

Deshabhakta said...

Mr. Anonymous-Srinivas, pedophiles have their own sexual preferences. Should the state not act against such things? If the state is not expected set a code of living then why should there be ban on child marriages? People might say it is unnatural as the guy/girl are not physically and mentally ready to live as man and wife. This homosexuality is also unnatural. State should not put the social and cultural setup of an entire nation to risk to pacify a very small minority. Murder cannot be decriminalized owing to the presence of over a lac murderers in the society.

Anonymous said...

dear sd
gay and nongay both rights must be protected within constitution.what about justice and other rights?
my friend is an applicant in a 2001 old civil matter in amumbai court.it is at the last final argument stage since last more than a year and evidences on records are in favour of my friend.there are nexus between lawyers and judges,my friend was adviced to talk with judge.it was useless to complain in bar council.finally my friend has to settle it with judgethrough his lawyer on a sunday.judge words"though appeal possible against my order,they only interfere if any law point... even mms has to buy mps,what to do?"

sanjay said...

Swapanda,

Indians are known for coining new catch phrases, the latest one by our media is “Don’t politicize…” whatever that means. From cool-guy Prannoy Roy to ever-excited Arnab Goswami, everybody has latched on to it like “Jinn ka Chirag”. So what are our politicians supposed to do for their living?? Be seated in their studios everyday and listen to their sermons like erring schoolboys?? So whenever any big incident takes place our politicians should not voice their opinions only media should, only media has the right to sensationalize any event to maximize their TRPs, carry out one-hour-prime-time-media-trials, and pronounce their verdict at the end of that. What are they?? Demigods?? Somebody should show them their rightful place.

Oldtimer said...

Sanjay, the phrase "don't politicize!" is to be interpreted as, "don't forget that this government gave me a 450 crore dole, man!"

Anonymous said...

heyoldtimer get your priorities right.dont sob for mj blog and jumpi in on small isssue like sympathy for arvind and macaulayites when there are hungry children who work isntead of school.

i am behind every traitors ass.and taht is not petty like mj and liberal arts sympatHy sob

These very liberal arts congress traitors HAVE RUINED OUR MOTHERLAND for 60 yrs.being brainless without scruples and selfish and corrupt they do not go without food and water
and electricity.

prannoy is campaigning against maya for congress
when there is no elec in amethi due to maya.
amethi is rahuls gandhis domai for 60 years and they were sleeping


why shuld i vote if evms are fraud and ecs are farud all owned by congress frauds.

and this is not a petty reason

conress farud idiots r having discussions about family palanning.

idiots only have discussions.have been sleeping for 60 yrs.
these swiss bank fraud .

dont be petty about emotions and jump in on causes like arvind-traitors ass.

u shudl be commending me for my anger against traitors.but u r confused pretty hindu.senti as always.

Arvind said...

This debate is a red herring which assumes that India is a rule of law state and by amending laws we can set things right in India. Most laws including Sec 377 are just useless words on paper which no one cares about. The only ones debating this issue are those who want to ape whites by showing that they too have an opinion on gays just like the whites do. In reality, Indians never cared for gays one way or the other. Nor do laws like these matter.

Anonymous said...

dear sd
rights of indian poors at the moment can best be served by bringing back all illegally leaked indian money abroad in last 60 years.as suggested by a senior sc councillor if mms declare,that govt.has all names with their figures and if said funds not brought back and surrendered to defined govt account in 10days from today ,govt.will start booking accused under fera,prevention of corruption act,all applicable sections of indian penal code etc and law will take fastest course in day to day hearing special courts where bails will be least possibility due to seriousness of offences.there cannot be any bigger crime than to intentionally keep crores of indians undignified poors for their whole life!even mms has no feelings for these crores of hungry indian poors though opportunity and power!even a normal person feels if he see a hungry poor sleeping on afootpath or if poor children searching for food in waste.i invite comments on this.

Arjun said...

Ah. What a spirited discussion about homosexuals, middle India, with a sprinkling of Michael Jackson to boot! The BJP's silence is very surprising. I assumed some crazed BJP soul would have added this topic to the list of election issues for the future. Thankfully I was not let down by RSS khaki kachha Chauhan whose commitment to virginity should gladden all our hearts. Poor Michael Jackson fails this test for sure.

Anonymous said...

sanjay,u r late man but atleast y noticed it.
but it is sad that indians are so unaware.

they have been doing it for 30 years buddy.

please understnand these are agents and dogs of the congress.they all are part of the establishment.PRANNOY GOT wtw from corrupt
congress and ib secreatary bhaskar ghose who controlled DD.it was a monopoly and he got the first mover monopoly advantage.

who is ghose?sagarika's dad and his son inlaw rajdeep was employed by prannoy.

no merit required just connections and nepotism.
rajddeeps mother is on congress's censor board and deora has named a mumbai road after dad dilip.rajdeep hid cash for vote tape remeber.

people dont even remeber and forget.and call mms a hones t man just because he talks meekly and incorruptible modi talks his mind honestly and media criticize him.they dont want congress criticized. The frauds call that politicizing.
THIS IS LIKE telling the repubs not to criticize dems and vice versa.india is trully bizarre.

when they say politicize they mean bjp shuld not but congress can.

dont u remember man, so many times in the past.

bjp dont polticize 26-11 all parties r responsible.
bjp dont politicize afzal,swiss banks.

these guys want congress to win more than congress.they weigh everything in terms of gains and losses for their congress masters fo which they get paid from congress and jihaidsis like teesta and arabia and pakistan where prannoy etc have business.

self interest simple.the tragedy is that r frauding the viewers by posing as media.this in any decent country would not be tolerated but india has gullibles and ignorants and short memoried.

in india the media campaigns against the opposition instead of being watchdog of govt.

i wonder how people can be so passive intellectually when they are willing to die for cricket and know all details.

prannoy is now camapigning for congress against mayawati.just check youtube where u have some real great guys who expose the fraud elmedia mafia.

Anonymous said...

gopi says,This is so typical of our khakinickers - any time you dissent from Official line, you are a traitor - any wonder they are licking xxxx despite us having a sub-par UPA I Govt. People of India pref that dogdy govt / alliance to the one led by a model

reply
u r wrong.

out of the 28 % congress vote 80 % vote is muslim
vote.if u cannot even analyze the vote,no point in talking to u.bjp has 19 % vote.u are incompetent or ignorant about why upa won assuming evms were okay.because to any average brain it shuld be clear that CHAWLA AND other ecs r congress men.

and this will happen in 2014,thanks to incopmpetent analysts like you and divided hindu vote.

modi is less responsible for gujarta 2002
than rajiv was for 1984 and congress is for all riots since 1947 and gandhi nehru r responsible for all riots since 1947.and idiots like u
are comatose about history of thousnads of riots and there was no godhra train arson provocation which modi had to deal with.

u had no analysis just allegations in your previous post.

just one liners against modi have been the forte of the jihadis an d seculars and congressmen.

yeah maut ke saudagar and sorabuddin is an angel.

if you are a hindu ,i am ashamed to be one and that does not make me a knickerist.

the voting math and the first past the post election system and the growing muslim population well mobilized by the congress mafia thru propaganda against muthalik,varun,modi etc was enough to get them the muslim consolidation against bjp.they will do it just before elections
2014 to divert attention about congress misperformance and the even greater muslim bangladeshi vote due to growth of 5 years will do the rest.

india's doom is written by hindus like nehru-gandhi.islam's goal is to islamize india after 40 % land grab,60 % is shared by hindus with muslims.

and with proxy jihadis like u against shivaji's like modi,india has little hope.its ironic ur name i gopi.krishna taught arjun to fight.
u would have stopped him and called him names like u do modi.

where was ur ire when sc judges capitulated to muslims recently and even invalidated the order
against beard.

so lets see u rebut,till then consider yourself a fool if not a marxist.even ratan tata voted for modi an d so do crores of gujaratis idiot.

what make u smarter than them.ur one liners or ur incomptetnce as an analyst of the vote.

yeah hooch tragedies and riots have never happened before modi.ur memory is faulty too.

yeas anyone against a patriotic, godsent incorruptible,workoholic leader (who is against muslim appeasemnt and jihadi first claim disrespect of hindus and who has impressed crores including tata and neutral analysts), is a traitor.

cant think of a better definition.osama and taliban dont need to fight to conquer india for islam with proxy agents like u with beguiling hindu names.

rebut u modern jaichand.or else take 'facts and analysis' classes.or change ur religion at the least.muslims are passionate and honest about their religion which teaches them to vote against bjp( obviously not all genius).fighting that and the ec and agents like u will never beeasy for bjp till hindus realize and unite.

bjp_supporter said...

While the brilliant BJP strategists, by all reckoning belonging to the Advani faction, have decided not to criticize the government, our politicis is as usual. Only in the BJP the strategists have decided the best course for opposition is not to oppose anything. The only reasonable analysis of the budget came from Subramanian Swamy and Yashwant Sinha. The only reason Sushma Swaraj was in the news in the last couple of weeks was to ask for 'more protection' for Varun Gandhi. Arun Jaitley? Must be leading aspirational politics. His own aspirations atleast. This beats me. What was/is the politics of Mamata Banerjee? She gave the biggest break for UPA this elections.

Economy might very well tank. The western nations do not have any more juice left to stimulate their economies. The vast savings of the Indians would be very tempting for them to tap into now. Our own economy can get into serious trouble because the government suddenly thinks any amount of deficit is okay. And add the usual stuff with political violence, naxal violence, riots etc, that is all still going on.

But the best strategy for the BJP is to sit tight and say nothing and hope the elite upper middle class will love them for how friendly they are. Bravo.

IN the next elections, all anti-congress votes will go to those parties who oppose. Which will be the third front and left.

remember the stock market adage - bulls make money, bears make money, and the pigs get slaughtered.

M. Patil said...

I agree with BJP_Supporter here. The job of opposition to hold the govt accountable. BJP seems to have abdicated its responsibility of being the primary opposition. They should be holding the MMS's feet to the fire on issues like unsustainable fiscal deficit, high inflation of necessities(pulses, vegetables).

If BJP does not voice the concerns of aam citizen, why should they expect to be voted to power?

M.Patil

dark lord said...

>>Our of 28% vote share, 80% is muslims.

A. no supporting proof
B. Who voted for SP, CPIM, ML, Muslim party from assam etc.
C. How come congress lost Bihar badly. How did they manage to win Rajasthan.

Even a rudimentary analysis as to concentration of muslims with Congress vote share should give you some results rather than these kind of baseless allegations. Congress gets this vote share because of its geographic spread. How many seats was BJP in contention (50% and above of the winning candidate) in TN, Kerela, AP, Bengal and North East.

mpanj said...

bjp_supporter and M. Patil,

While I share your horror at BJP's new found silence. It seems like the pendulum has swung in the other direction - from 2004-09 all BJP did was oppose, oppose and oppose.

Now they seem to be going silence, silence, silence.

Opposing is fine, however, it must be accompanied with alternative strategies.

If this budget is screwed up - deficits, zero reforms, etc. BJP must propose what it would have done differently.

How for example, prices can be brought down by building better roads - 30-40% of our farm produce is lost due to inadequate transportation and storage options.

Better roads could help expedite the transportation of produce to markets - increasing supply without any significant increase in subsidies, production, etc.

Simply saying Congress Sucks - wont work. The same goes on terror.

Why dont BJP govts. create a stronger anti-terror infrastructure in their own states. More policemen per 1000 citizens.

Become model states on terror, economy and infrastructure.

Here's an idea: Most of north India is drought stricken. Imagine next year if BJP ruled states are in a relatively better state due to better water management measures taken this year.

This can be showcased in every election moving forward and ELM cannot do anything to counter it.

NaMo has shown us by changing the political discourse - From the Politics of Patronage to the Politics of performance.

BJP Performs! That should be the slogan for 2014. Ofcourse backed by results.

Arvind said...

I don't think BJP should do much about this. This law is anyways rarely enforced and I think putting a person in jail because he had "gay sex" is preposterous. I think most average Hindus don't care much about it irrespective of what VHP might say. They are too busy getting stuck in traffic jams and having 6 hour blackouts, and don't care much about this one way or the other (I ignore most news outlets that hype this issue because they don't represent an average Hindu anyways). For the record, if you go beyond British and Mughal rule, you will see that though homosexuality was generally "looked down upon" (finds little mention even in Kamasutra), there was no outright "ban". Someone should inform the VHP!

Now Catholic church doesn't have an objection though they consider homosexuality a "sin". Makes sense because that way it's better for business and more souls can be "harvested".

Darul-uloom Deoband seems to have issued a fatwa against it. Don't know what Shahi Imam Bukhari thinks. But these guys are significant "players". However, I think Congress has gotten or will get some form of consensus in this from these guys. There is a lesson in this for BJP. While tackling issues in India, you have to be a "smooth operator" and try to do it mostly through a "consensus based approach".

Anyways all this is a lil premature. As I understand Court ruling by itself doesn't make it legal. Courts INTERPRET laws, Parliament MAKES laws. So the Constituion has to be amended. Let's wait for that.If this happens it will be a landmark ruling indeed. India should view the 180M muslims she has as an asset instead of a liability. Yes, Mecca and Medina are in Saudi Arabia but ideas and writings on Islam should flow from India. The coming Renaissance in Islam should be spearheaded by Indian Muslims. Indian Muslims should take charge instead of just looking up to Suadi Arabia and Arabs for everything.

OT but with regards to Xinjiang India should try to exploit the events that have happened to widen the schism between Hans and the Muslim world. The fact that Hu came back immediately to China suggests situation is grave. But this should be done "subtly". I'd start with opening a Centre for Central Asian Studies Department at JNU and giving more voice to views on and from East Turkestan (as some people call it). I'd also encourage the "think tanks" and media to focus more on this issue. China is flexing her muscles too much of late and needs to be "contained".

Finally I didn't write the inane comment above this.

Anonymous said...

Swapanda,

It was just a matter of time before India toed the American line with regards to Pakistan and restart the dialogue process. All that bravado after 26/11 terror attacks on Bombay that India will make Pakistan bring the perpetrators of all terrorism emanating from their soil committed on India to book was just meant for the elections. No wonder that, considering that the even the toughest rhetoric only said “we will ask the international community(?) to put pressure on Pakistan to stop terrorism against India”. They never bothered to answer just why would the so called “International community” do that? Why should a bully protect you from its own ally when you yourself can’t sort out the guy who slaps you again and again? Why our highly paid so-called diplomats are so naïve? Unfortunately the entire main stream media is hard-selling it as some kind of a success of pathetic Indian diplomacy. And they are all using the same arguments to effect their spin.

That Manmohan Singh has no balls is a no brainer, but why should a billion people suffer him? Since his finance minister days he has been dutyfully following instructions, be it from IMF, Sonia Gandhi or US. Even our sovereignty is under clouds today.

Arvind said...

@Anon

"CONGRATS TO ANKAN,BALAJI,ARVIND,ARUN on this report (about Katju)."

Are u kidding me? What Katju said was STUPID!! Doesn't matter whether he is a Hindu, Christian, Muslim or Buddhist or from Timbaktu. Having a beard does not make SOMEONE TALIBAN!!

Anonymous said...

patil and bjp supporter.

i have no idea what bjp is doing inside parliament because i am in the usa.but my only source is the elm congres sowned media.

my question is that this media cannot be trusted.they do not report and hide.

u r right they r reporting on pet bogey varun but also remember they blank out news when it suits them like some resourceful poster here researched that mafia is hiding the commission inquiry on shopian in kashmir.

calling elmafia media is s disgrace to journalism.theese r frauds on congress jihadi payroll.and only innocent unaware will believe
them.

my advice is dont go by the elmedia-mafia because they screen and blank all the time
and if u do not know that yet,then it is sad.
may be u r watching the parliament channel which is atleast another live source and shows the truth.

otherwise ur onservations would be faulty because they r founded on messages from congress dogs like ndtv ibn.

so for heavens sake be fair to the facts and by now if u have not moved on to more objective sources of news,then it is highly regrettable that u are giving business to frauds and adulterating your posts with adulterated news from mafia

Anonymous said...

modi bjp is pro death penalty for hooch dealers.

now what is better action cosmetic visit to victims and raul dalit amethi photoops like congres s frauds have done for 60 yrs with chamcha media publicizing it or actaul aactions.

and for heavens sake dont rely on elmedia mafia.

for all we know modi did visit the victims and elmafia frauds hid that.but please understnad a photop visit is a congress type fraud,not a 'model' thing a s gopi so naively says.

remeber mafia lieing about adavani not meeting mms after 26-11

test of true stupidity is whther u r unaware whetehr elmedia mafia is on congress payroll.

u would have to be dumb or shotmemoried if u cant figure this out in a relatively short time.

Anonymous said...

Seems like only this "Anonymous" is smart one here, everyone else who does not agree with him is idiot, dumb, even a jehadi, agent of muslims/ISI/Cong, pro-terrorist, marxist, BJP-hater and any other tag in the Khaki demonology! I hope he keeps on doing his good work - this will drive good / sensible people away from Khaki Parivaar.
- Gopi

M. Patil said...

To Anonymous @ July 17, 2009 4:57 AM

My information here in Hyd is from New Indian Express and EEnadu in print and Daily Pioneer on the internet. Papers, that are not known to be anti BJP. BJP should ignore Nehru Dynasty TV (NDTV) and Indira Broadcasting Network (IBN) and make a case directly to the people through pada yatras and so on, as YSR did in AP. Today, local newspapers reported that Chiranjeevi of Prajarajyam was arrested while protesting against price rise. BJP must realize that there are ways of getting ones point across without sitting in AC studios of BJP baiters.

M.Patil

M. Patil said...

mpanj said

“Opposing is fine, however, it must be accompanied with alternative strategies.”

I agree, however during the last term BJP opposition was not consistent, first they were peeved after the elections and went on a mauna vrata. Later they were against the nuclear deal but, just before the elections they were for it with minor changes. No surprise, the voters were not convinced. Now, Advani is asking for a probe of 11/26 nearly six months after the event. They failed to hold the Congress govt responsible for its gross negligence and let the corrupt media get away blaming the entire political class. For example, we still don’t know how 2-4 terrorists manage to carry enough ammunition to Taj. Was the ammunition placed there before? They had enough ammunition to hold the armed forces at bay for over 48 hours.

Now, lets see the oppositions response to abject surrender of the MMS govt to Pakistan.

Sudhir said...

BJP is doing its job as an opposition but our only source of information being the MSM news gets selectively filtered and we get the news which only potray BJP in bad light. Check this video where Sushma Swaraj questioned the government motives of delinking terror from the dialogue

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHddaUWxteY

Anonymous said...

hey gopi yes the posts speak for themelves.I do not say i am the only smart one here but my post is definitely far more factual and analytical than yous.May be u r smarter at taking bribes from modi-bjp haters and play acting here with one liners.

you obviously cannot rebut because you have not rebutted my points like the vote analysis all I see is a sarcastic one liner about knickerits etc...

I AM Not into this for egoes u get it.
I could careless if i am smart.but if idiots and traitors like u ar going to behave a s if
gujarat 2002 was the only riot and hoochtragedy again was the only one then u r a bjp-modi hater.

so dont try to divert with smartass comments about my smartness.

dumball u must be an idiot to only remember gujarta 2002 and give evryone else a clean chit including nehru gandhi who had apartition and yet let the communal distracting riots continue by their illogical partition,neither here nor there.

U do not see the difference between actual action like death penalty
for hooch dealers proposed by action man modi
and a rahul cosmetic visit to amethi to live with dalits,that has been the trademark of congress fraud s for 60 yrs.actual action requires hard work u know.no u dont u are dumbass.

dont make childish piqueful comments.rebut
if u r smart.

even a kid is smarter than u .he will know that 2002 happened because of godhra train and modi had to deal with that.
genius what did the congress have to deal with when the pandits were cleansed in kashmir.did pandits kill muslims.and genius the muslims are living in gujarta.while the hindus are extinct in kashmir without any godhra like provocation.

your ego is your problem.but u ar a typical seclar english media modi hater who is a shivaji.

change your religion and name and atlest u wont be a traitor.

any modi hater with a hindu name is atraitor and I just need to be average for that,not even smart.

so u must be way below average because u can still be fooled by congress photoops like visiting victims and then going back to their
lavish aiyashi in their bungalows doing nothing
for 60 yrs.

now come back with the copy and paste of previous two comments.knickerist blah blah.

its a shame u are blasting a godsent patriot deliverer like modi only because some jihadis burnt a train and started it all.

scum like u dont care about the train hindus or kashmiri hindus .sham e on u.go back to ur secula emafia.

u should be thanking me for wasting time on edcating u.insteda ur ego is at stake.get lost man.u r not only a fool but also immature.

this s about the truth and the country james bond,not about who is smarter.disgraceful and disgusting.

Anonymous said...

sudhir,i am the anon who praised u for shopian and now this link about mafia coverage and other s before. i also made the same point before like to bjp supporter .u have confirmed it.

and then people like GOPI pick this media propaganda up from these congress mafiamediafrauds who fool them because of their great ability to be fooled.Sso if frauds say modi did not visit hooch victims AS IF VISITING VICTIMS is the answer, and the congress mafia will decide what modi shuld do.
only idiots will expect enemies to give advice and further recommend that it shud be taken.so modi shuld visit victims instead of actuall action like death penalty that congress nevr did
because it is a fraud master of photoops,foundation stones,announcemnets promoted by media dogs like garibi hatao for 60 yrs.and yet we have poverty.

compare with action man modi.

Or if modi is a mass murderer then gopi will believe that and target a patriot like modi an do the media's and congress job for free by propagating the defamation.what a guy?

i repeat my advice please look to other sources on internet for news just by googling. PLease do not let this congress-jihadi mafia fraud u disguised as media.

Anonymous said...

arvind as usual,u are being so confidently ignorant of the facts and making a fool of yourself like with your know all cerificate to evms when some experts are filing petitions. .

beard does not make taliban.my friends have beards genius.

but expecting a private school to not follow its rules which r against beards is the issue here.

the muslim boy was forcing the school to agree to islamic dictat.get it genius .

then the islmi-secular congress lobby went to work behind the scenes and got katju to apologize for the word taliban.

but genius as if missing the above distinction is not enough u miss the disrespect of the sc which was forced to acknowledge bias and invalidate the order.THis is gretaest contempt and disgrace of the court since shahbano.

sarcozy is gainst burkha just like the school
is against beards.

but jiahdi agents like u will always side with the progressive mullahs.same blinkered understanding.

i am not sure u will even understand the issues above and have the courtesy to apreciate my time
wasted here.

so now u r smarter than the evm experts and a justice of the sc.keep going.u always r in the
most progressive intellectual company of the 7th century mullahs.

there is a saying bettre to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than confirm it.

u need to atleast get your facts right by doing complete research.but then I am speaking to the
biggest genius arvind who thinks that swapan and this blog r his property and he can order
sd how to run his blog.

now how much sense and genius does that show?ordering swapan to censor posts and limit them

Anonymous said...

dark lord,i want you to point out what is factually wrong with the math below.nothing else.

i put the math before and u might have missed it.not my fault.

and this has been done by other analysts too and it is better than blaming varun and modi and muthalik and ugly hindu for bjp loss just to go alpong with media propaganda.

here goes again

muslim population including bangladeshis 17 to 18 %

remember there was a 50 % turn out and the seculars know muslim vote with religous duty to keep bjp away.hence they always beg for that vote because of its dominance.In fact secularism means islamic votebank in india.

in 50 % turn out,if all muslims vote we have 35 % muslims just turning up to vote,right DL.

assuming most muslims turn out
and most muslim voted for congress because they had no choice , the muslim vote could be 23 %
instead of 35 % making a WAY TOO lower end assumption

23 % out of 28 % is about 80 % of vote. Get it.



bjp got 19 % because it did not have presence in 5 states and contested less seats hence congress got 9 % more.also bjp lost rajasthan but that does not take away from the above math which is talking about vote share and not seats.

point simply was that most of congress vote
is muslim vote add on the christians and marxists and liberal arts medai,corrupt babus
and very few hindus are left.

point is far more hindus vote for bjp and very few non marxists hindus vote for congress.

so to tom tom that bjp shuld do this and that without knowing the math is against it because of the muslim dominance,is to mislead bjp.

get it and yes i want you to rebut the high school level math.

if i can mobilize muslim vote thru hyping varun,modi as pm ,gujarat,muthalik etc
the I have won the elction based on india's electoral system and remeber this assumes evms were okay.

again dont divert or evade.point out the flaw in the math.waiting for it dl.
rajasthan has nothing to do with the 80 % muslim vote calculation.

Anonymous said...

one more thing Dlord

congress lost bihar,so?

no one is saying congress hsould win all seats in india.muslim vote could have been with lalu paswan in bihar and nitish got it too.my calculation above assumes that some muslim vote went to others.even if u assume muslim population is 16 % then above will hold because we could make it that 22 % out of 32 % muslim turn out vote voted for congress


point is congress won 216 with a massive consolidation of muslim vote in its favor
bihar etc are some sets. no one is saying congress shuld win all seats.

waiting for your response.attack the calculation
and no diversions to rajasthan bihar,sp.these
are not rebuttals.

Anonymous said...

dl one more thing that u missed

this was a central election so muslims/christians had to defeat the bjp so they would prefer congress to any regionlal party like tdp,sp etc.in up mahesh bhatt etc were doing surveys in each seat to find out where the bjp could be defeated and congress could be consolidated to win centre.congress won 21 that way.

Sanjay said...

Sudhir,

You have a point, but as Patil said there are ways to communicate with the people. How many times have you seen Naveen Patnaik or Nitish Kumar on EL news channels?

Anonymous said...

dear sd
apart from gay rights,uniquely after independence,indian democracy itself is hijacked by conspiracy of mutually interested cong.(all corrupted criminals want to protect their wasted interests),bjpetc(surprising?),media,judiciory,ec,cbi,president,governors etc.where do trapped indians go?voters pl. note ,you are merely a commodity to be manipulated and traded at the time of respective elections by the conspirators,nothing more.the biggest people issues:bringing real huge swissetc moneyand, d gang back to india are conviniently forgotten.we are proud of sikhs who have protected india and here is mms who to protect ff betrayed whole nation by allowing various frauds, including depriving crores of indian poors from huge huge indian money leaked abroad in last sixty years,even though opportunity and powers!mms has undoutedly taken a duty to protect corrupted.mms should know that whole world know this.no other issue can overnight change status of india to a developed nation and related benifits.hope that sense of priority prevails and we can manage this opportunity instead of managing crisis!

Anonymous said...

Dark lord,
There is no sense in wasting time unless you want more abuses sent your way. You need not go further than read this ANON to know why BJP lost so badly. If you go by his analysis, Hindu voting % was 40% If so, why did 60% Hindus stay home despite the New Messiah addressing 100+ meetings outside Gujarat. You raised question about Bihar / Raj but that is also true of MP, Haryana, Punjab, Delhi, Uttranchal and Orissa where Muslim influence is insignificant or overwhelmingly limited to a few seats / areas? The plain fact is that lots of Hindus were simply put off byt the conduct of leadership of the entire Khaki Parivaar during the last 10 years.

Anonymous said...

We hear a lot about Godhra all the time. What about Godhra? If anything, that doubles the imcompetence of Modi. He did not foresee trouble in Godhra (that got scores of innocent Hindus killed) and then did not see trouble coming (or was not competent enough to control) and resulted into hundreds of innocent Gujaratis - Muslims and Hindus - getting killed. A civilised admin following rule of law, the correct way would be to gather evidence, catch culprits, prosecute and, when convicetd, hang them. Revenge killings of innocents do not happen in civilised societies, least their justification. They had BJP govt in Delhi and Gujarat so nothing preveted them from doing that. To call Modi Shivaji is damnation of that great warrior and king.
To say that this happened in Cong rule too does not mean anything. If so, what is diff between them and BJP? And, how did liquor flow so freely in A'abd - either his admin is corrupt or nalayak. You can not have it both ways and claim it happens elsewhere as well. About Pandits, what did BJP, RSS, VHP do for them except collecting votes in their name? have they collected any money for their relief? Did they do anything to provide facilities when they were in power in Delhi and many states? As far as I know from public record (and also told by Kashmiri Hindu friend involved in such work in Delhi), it is zero.
Corruption: Yes, Congress has been a corrupt party but so are BJP, CPM, SP, DMK, BSP, SAD, SS, TDP and all other P's; their record is as bad as Cong's so no sense in shouting about Cong follies.
Jehad: What did BJP do? Loh Purush was Home Min and he kept telling us to come out of a white paper on ISI, jehadis etc. Ditto about Bangladeshis, police reform, judicial backlog, edu, etc. The only areas where their record was outstanding- economy, infra, IT, telecom, disinvestment, deficit, VAT- all those were manned by people with non-RSS backgrounds, the only exception being Vajpayee. It was random event perhaps but most of the lousy ones were amnned by people with Khaki background!
BJP-hates: If people like us are BJP-haters, agents of ISI, jehadis, etc. because we refuse to blindly follow the party line or believe that Adhikaris are infallible - what Madhu Limaye used to call "Follow the leader" syndrome - then the Khaki Parivaar will be in real trouble! But, if the Parivaar has likes of this ANON guy (of girl), then I will not be very surprised that Congress will come back with a full majority and a shallow, duffer Rahul will become PM because a large part of Indians do not want to have anything to do with goons/thugs of VHP-BD and many Senes/Parishads; they will hold their noses and go for a patently anti-Hindu Sonia Congress (or stay home) as they have done several times.
Being Hindu: Hinduism is not Islam or Catholic that he can issue fatwas. And, who the hell is he / she to tell us to change our names/religion? But, that does say about their knowledge of basic tenets of Hinduism: these morons, who claim to hate Islamists have actually become their Hindutva counterparts in hate, intolerance, thuggery, bigotry etc. I see not much difference between the two.
Advice to Arjun: It is funny he brought Arjun into his tirade. If he has read Mahabharat (the real one and the filmi version), he will note this fact: the conduct of that greatest of Mahabharat warriors was always honourable and above reporach except on one occasion, viz, killing of Karna! There is simply no comparision between Arjun or Shivaji and Modi. But, it is a free world so he is free to believe what he likes without inviting the kind of abuse he throws our ways!
Finally, about us being paid by ISI etc., Many like me here have given lacs of rupees to relief work of RSS, BJP election fund, Vanvasi Kalyan work, Kargil Fund, Bhuj Relief, Kashmiri Hindu relief, Voice of India and such other efforts and we never asked for any kind of favor. But, I guess his types can never understand that - throwing mud / abuse is so much easy than trying to understand contrary opinion / views!
- Gopi

mpanj said...

Gopi,

First let me say this.

NaMo has changed the political discourse in our country.

From the Politics of Patronage to the Politics of Performance.

You are prone to the same proclivities you accuse others of vis-à-vis NaMo.

Alas, you are tying yourself in knots.

Let me explain.

1. Corruption:

You say Congress is corrupt – so what - so is BJP and others.

But is NaMo corrupt? Funny you left out this minor detail.

The fact is Gopi, NaMo is untouched by corruption and he has stuck to his guns at great political cost.
Why do you think Keshubhai and Zadaphia turned on him. Because as his famous election slogan went “hu khatu nathi, khava detu nathi” - I don’t take brides and don’t tolerate those that do.

Surely there are other leaders that incorruptible, but they turn a blind eye to the endemic corruption that plagues India’s polity (Example: MMS).

NaMo doesn’t.

2. Nepotism:

NaMo doesn’t tolerate it. He obviously has no progeny, but several siblings. Almost every other political leader has allowed their extended families to prosper.

Examples: Sonia, Mayawati, Pramod Mahajan, etc.

Not Modi.

3. Courage:

As Winston Churchill once remarked “Courage is the foremost virtue, everything else follows”. Modi epitomizes courage in every sphere – fighting corruption, fighting terror, fighting power theft, fighting female feticide.

At every juncture he has taken on every political/religious entity that has violated the principles of a strong nation.

Not only Mullahs but even VHP and Bajrang Dal. If you don’t believe that ask Pravin Togadia.

mpanj said...

4. Administration:

There hasn’t been a more able administrator than Modi since Independence. I would count Sardar Patel as pre-independence.

The closest we came was with Shastriji.

Even ABV pales in comparison to what NaMo has achieved.

You claimed in an earlier post that Gujarat had great roads even in the 80s.

Aha, so did M’rastra. In fact, other that perhaps Punjab, M’rastra was the best state to live in. From water management to a progressive educational system, it was a model state (relatively speaking).

Now compare where Gujarat has ended up and where M’rastra is languishing.

Modi was saddled with famine, earthquakes, epidemics, riots, terror attacks all through his tenure. And he passed every test with flying colors.

Don’t believe me – ask the voters of Gujarat who voted for him (overwhelmingly).

You claim that Modi was doubly culpable for Godhra/Riots.

Again, you’re the one following the biased media and running your ‘lakh pati’ mouth without bothering to first ascertain the facts.

1. Most surrounding states then (MP, Rajastan, M’rastra) were congress ruled and the request for central forces was delayed or (in case of MP) turned down. This is a request that is never turned down. Congress played its sinister game. Modi has pointed this out several times – but our biased media will never allow such ‘minor’ facts to get in the way of their false propaganda.

2. The instruments that need to be in place monitor a population for trouble makers wasn’t in place. Modi did not have enough time to put one in place. He had been in office only a few months.

3. Was Modi strong and even handed in controlling riots – yes. Sadly the evidence lies in the ratio of Hindus to Muslims killed in that riot.

4. Compare post-Godhra riots to Mumbai riots of 92, where muslims were the biggest victims - Targeted by sainiks and by cops alike.

5. The greatest testimony to Modi’s administrative acumen lies in the law and order situation in Gujarat since 2002. Anything since then that bites at you Gopi?

6. Hooch tragedy.

No administration in the history of mankind has been able to prohibit the distribution of this poison. America - with its extensive law enforcement agencies – Tobacco and Fire arms, DEA, FBI, etc. – gave up.

Hooch tragedies have taken place in every state – with or without prohibition.

Why don’t we for a change blame those that consume this poison. Do they have no responsibility.

Let me put it this way – you go out of your way to find a gun store, buy the firearm, buy the bullets, take it to your temple and pull the trigger – and then blame Modi for …..what….. pulling the trigger?

Once again look at NaMo’s response. Give him time and you will see that even this monster will be tamed.

7. Finally, what pleases me most about NaMo – and for which the Goddess mother will bless him till eternity – is his work for the Girl child. From building schools and ensuring enrollment to taking on his voters for tolerating and abetting female feticide, this man has done more for the girl child than the rest of India combined.

You or your cohorts in the English media can do little to stop him. Live with it and quit complaining – unless you can back your verbal diarrhea with facts and figures.

Arvind said...

@Anon

"the muslim boy was forcing the school to agree to islamic diktat. get it genius"

Islam doesn't force anyone to have beards. IMO a school forcing the boy not to have beard is pretty lame and not correct. BUT THAT IS A TOTALLY DIFFERENT ISSUE THAT IS TO BE DEBATED and DO NOT BRING ISLAM into it.

I dunno from where u got the idea that I was asking for censoring posts. BTW I think what Sarkozy is doing is pretty stupid and is gonn backfire on him if it gets passed into law. The current "ghettoisation" of Muslims outside Paris is only gonna increase.

mpanj said...

Gopi,

No modern day leader (Indian or otherwise) can measure up to the Chatrapati.

If you do a little research you can see Shivaji’s influence all over Modi’s actions and conduct.

Which is not surprising as most of Modi’s early RSS mentors were from M’rastra (one of them being the father of the present Sarsangchalak – Mohan Bhagwat).

To emulate great men is a virtue.

So why is Modi a worthy claimant to Shivaji’s legacy?

Here’s the comparison.

1. Shivaji was completely incorruptible. In every sense of the term.
a. So is NaMo.
2. Shivaji’s respect for women is legendary - He forbade his troops from raping or dishonoring women captured as part of his military conquests.
a. NaMo’s work for the girl child speaks for itself
b. Scandal cant come close to this man – let alone ensnare him
c. And don’t even start with his taking on SRP – he has never used derogatory language – he has only pointed out their political and moral failings.
3. Courage in fighting Islamofacism
a. Chatrapati was the savior – without him we would all be praising Osama and looking forward to our 72 virgins. So comparing anyone to that record is unfair.
b. But Gujarat is the only state that in the past 5 years has been able to track down and book perpetrators of terror.
c. Compare that to the so called inheritors of Shivaji’s legacy – the Shivraj Patils and Vilasrao deshmukhs….enough said.
4. Shivaji was known for his administration. He never indulged in a war which would impose untold misery on his subjects – his reign ended an endemic cycle of famine in M’rastra which was driven partly by the constant state of war imposed by the warring deshmukh families.
a. Every neutral body (and even some Congressmen) commends the administration NaMo has provided.
b. 24 hours, uninterrupted power – did Gujarat have that in the 80s too?
c. An improving sex ratio – the census should be out next year – we will see the results – but early projections are indicating a startling improvement.
NOTE: Sex ratio should be compared for those born after 2005-06. This is when Modi started his campaign to reign in female feticide. The overall sex ratio may not show much improvement.
d. Water management: If you still have contacts from your days in Gujarat ask them about improvements in water management at every level and region – rural, urban, Kutch, Saurastra, etc.
e. Single digit school drop out rates
f. NaMo’s record shows that his clean administration is efficient in bringing these funds to the people.

I can go on with more points of comparison but these should suffice.

Now if you come back with specific facts we can have a meaningful dialogue. But if you indulge in the same hate-Modi campaign sustained by your media cohorts the gloves will come off.

Sudhir said...

Gopi,

Please go through the following website before accusing Modi of inaction. It contains day to day report of what was happening during the period of riots.

http://in.rediff.com/news/godhra01.htm

Please comment after you have read the articles.

Some salient points - Modi ordered shoot at sight orders in Godhra on the day the train was burnt by ..... Also preventive arrests were made

Indefinite curfew was imposed in Ahmedabad and Rajkot on Feb 28

Army flag march on March 1.

Amidst all this request by Modi to Maharashtra MP and Rajasthan to send additional police forces (all congress ruled then) was turned down.


Also check this site - gujaratriots.com

You may accuse this site of a "knickerwalla" or "communal" site. If so please do not read what is written on the website instead just click on the links to the other website provided there. They are links to timesofindia, hindu, mid-day, India today, Indian express. (These are some of the papers which we communal, hindutva fascists accuse as biased).

I will be grateful to you if to you if you comment back on what do you think Modi was doing when the riots was happening. You will be surprised to find that what the newspapers had reported then and what they are reporting now.

Sudhir said...

Check this news -

http://news.in.msn.com/national/article.aspx?-documentid=3106168

Its about the MIM making big hue and cry about the relocating of a Mosque for the expansion of the shamsabad international airport near hyderabad.

The news is not very significant (according to me). But I dread to imagine what would have happened if instead of mosque there was a temple and some sleazy sena had come overground. Ultimately BJP would have been held guilty by the secular media and other esteemed secularist. But since it is not some Hindu sena, the news is totally absent from the ELM. (Latest is that government has agreed to fund the building of mosque)

Sanjay said...

Gopi,

I wouldn’t have responded to your views, as everyone has a right to an opinion, but I couldn’t agree with yours.

I don’t think your arguments deserve more weightage just because you contributed to the party fund. Sure BJP has imperfections but then who is perfect. Having said that, I contend that BJP has done a yeomen service to this country just by virtue of being National Opposition Party. It’s not easy to be one in India. It’s all about money my friend, and only congress has the requisite resources built over a century, and in absence of any institutionalized income for political parties in India the only ways they can have any can not be officially disclosed, you know that. Remember how Mayawati asked her party-men to contribute to party fund in her last birthday?? At least they are transparent!!

The next best alternatives to BJP viz CPM and erstwhile Janata Dal couldn’t manage any meaningful presence in more than two states. Then, what was wrong with the “Swatantra Party”, their ideas and what they stood for were far ahead of their times and are relevant even Today, in comparison, the ones the Congress stood for then – Gandhism, Socialism etc. turned out to be not more than mere Utopian ideals. Today, BJP remains the only National alternative to Congress, and take my word, give absolute power to any party in the world let alone Congress and you can kiss everything that is right, just and good, goodbye. Millions of ignorant people of this country deserves a solid national opposition party, and an opposition party that is standing against all odds deserves equally solid backing from it’s people.

Anonymous said...

A civilised admin following rule of law, the correct way would be to gather evidence, catch culprits, prosecute and, when convicetd, hang them.

yeah like the sikh riots thousands of communal riots and kashmir pandits under congress.gujarta riots uneer cong in 69 and 85
were worse than 02 except that hindus were at the recieving end due to congress rule under don latif.

gopi ha ha what an ironic name if real

do u know modi's police kiled 300 hindus.did that happen under rajiv 1984 slime ball when congies kille dthousnads with none of the congies being killed.
shouldnt rajiv have forseeen it punk and compare 30000 sikhs ,lakhs of kashmiri hindus with 750 muslims .r yu saying muslim lives r only important .How much is the isi paying u to make this into another islamic country whre only muslims r important.hindus are cleansed ins islamic countries u know.

u only criticize modi.Where was gandhi nehru's foresight and rajiv's who said a tree falls comment.and where was buddhadeb's foresight in bengal.ur being paid by jihadi media too to
relay their propaganda to the cyberspace.no wonder your posts blindly parrot their prejudice and election analysis propagnada..

why have a partition if commnuities can stay together and then why not have a proper partition if they cant , as has been the case since independence with thousand sof riots.
no foresight need for those only for modi.

u r not even worth abuses.disgusting u are targeting on e patriot modi with standards that do not apply to anyone else.make sure the jihadis are paying u well for your treachery.

u dont mention any other riot and parrot modi did not visit victims like a typical elmafia news reporter.

make sure u get paid for your services in spreading their propganda oblivious of facts and history.
and people like u actually have an ego when evn a snake deserves more of an ego becaise it is more evolved.if u cant apply standards equally,u are not a civilized human.period.

Anonymous said...

the average vote has been about 50% for many elections since wAy before last 10 years.that is why political parties call themselves secular (except bjp which is considerde an untouchable) BECAUSE THE MUSLIM VOTE CAN GET WINDFALLS.

the turnout of vote of muslims is crucial and seculars know this and try to mobilize it with muthalik,varun,modi as pm,just before elections.EVn swapan ha s referred to the islmic veto for many years.

to blame this on bjp alone is again like blaming modi alone for a consistent history of communal riots .both the vote turn out and riots is way too old and not juts ten yeras.

man this guy is not worthy of even abuse.disgusting hiow he is being paid to post on behalf of jihaids.

jihadi GOPI if that is his real name.isi and mafi will raise your commission with these two post.

happy.and call me a knickerist if that makes u happier just like all jihadi bjp haters and mafia like tehelka do

Anonymous said...

You can not have it both ways and claim it happens elsewhere as well.

Ofcourse u ca haveit both ways if your a mafia from the congress or ajihadi.

all politicians are to blame if 26-11 happens.


two wrongs dont make it right if someone brings up sikh riots to rebut gujarta riots.

note two wrongs dont make it right does not apply when 26 -11 happened.the u can bring up kandahar to rebut but u r not allowed sikh riots and thousnds of others for guj 2002.

in fact with guj riots it should readd

20,000 riots do not make guj riot right despite godhra train provocation which ha snever happened anywhere in the word by minorities.

thanks to jihadi goebells like gop and mafi.

even ec said this for varun.

we cannot go after all cases like congress hate speeches like maut ke suadagar.

no only bjp and varun.
all congress woongs dont make one bjp wrong right.

a jihadi called gopi.

sure to go to allah's hevean.

even osam need not do anything to conquer india.gopi will distrcat hindus and sedate them and trip them if they even show the ability to hold their head high.

see his focus on target modi and bjp,who speak for equality and hinudus.

now that offends

M. Patil said...

Anonymous/Gopi said,

"Finally, about us being paid by ISI etc., Many like me here have given lacs of rupees to relief work of RSS, BJP election fund, Vanvasi Kalyan work, Kargil Fund, Bhuj Relief, Kashmiri Hindu relief, Voice of India and such other efforts and we never asked for any kind of favor"

On the net people can make any number of claims, there is no way of veryfying these claims. Some people claiming to be for Kargil Fund and Vanavasi's could be on the forefront of a orchetrated attack on IDRF(which supports these wonderful organizations).

So, here on the internet we judge people on the merits of their arguments. When Sonia-MMS govt sells out our national interests and supposedly pro India wallas bring in the Trojan Horses like Modi etc to distract ane derail the conversation, we the readers have a right to question the intentions of these 'supposedly' pro India Congress wallas.

M.Patil
P.S Legitimate criticism is not throwing mud.

Anonymous said...

I am not pro-Cong; never voted for Cong and never do (stay home) but have a right to question BJP or Khaki leaders. If that means am an ISI agent, what can one say about such minds.
Gujarat has always been above avg - b/c of Gujarati better than others in India (save Punjabis/Sindhis) in entrepreneurship. They went as labor to Africa and built business empires there. So did Sarabhai, Lalbhai, Amabani etc in India! So, Gujarat is high b/c of them - successful everywhere - not b/c of N Modi only. I actually lived in Guj from 1981 to 86 and it was well above most other state even then. So, my point is not to belittle the Messiah but to say that what is Guj today is not only b/c of him but b/c of Gujarati genious!
Riots occured under his watch - a ruler is morally responsible for what happens under them - Nehru, Indira, Rajiv, Modi. Gold Meir resigned, taking moral responsibilty for initial surprise, though Israel won 1973 war.
Money: that was to clear point of me being paid by ISI. People like me are not in this for money; we give money away, not to ask for favor.
ELM: how many papers you read? I spend 2+ hrs daily to read most Eng, Hindi, Guj ones on web /weeklies. have been reader of Organiser/Panchjanya since 1969 so do not just go by ELM.
Riots / Pandit: Two wrongs do not make one right. I believe there is no place for revenge killing in a civilised society. Where did I say that Cong or its leaders were right? But their wrong do not make BJP wrongs right.
Mandate: 15 vs 11 LS seats and 2% diff in votes is not that overwhelming to me. But, it is a free place so you are free to believe that.
Hindu: Well, I need no certificate if I am a Hindu and not. BTW, my b-day is Aug 29, 1956, also Shri Krishna Janmasthami so Lord was not as unhelpful. Thank you. - Gopi Krishna

Anonymous said...

BTW, I would like to know how many of you who are calling likes of me ISI agent are Indian citizens!

Oldtimer said...

There's this old saw in my native tongue: "do not trust a dark-skinned brahmin". On the surface it sounds prejudiced, but the point it makes is not really anti-brahmin. Among the generally darker south Indians, the brahmin population is generally fairer. So a dark-skinned person claiming to be a brahmin is presumably a cheat.

Keep this in mind, folks, as you "debate" endlessly with those "BJP supporters" who just as endlessly whine about Gujarat riots, Modi, Ayodhya, yada yada. Try this for experiment: mention that Nandigram massacre shows how killing innocent people is an intrinsic part of leftwing ideology, and watch our kind-hearted compassion-filled "BJP supporter" refusing to be drawn into *that* debate. The tried and trusted technique of commie/evangelical nutjobs is to pretend to be outraged/disappointed that you are being your wife. (While all the while the chap is not only beating _his_ wife, he is beating up his girlfriend and her mom too on the side). The number of you who fall for this trick disappoints and outrages me. :-)

Oldtimer said...

Dear Arjun,

>>Thankfully I was not let down by RSS khaki kachha Chauhan whose commitment to virginity should gladden all our hearts.

Well said, my friend. But I see that you needlessly are curling your elitist lip and thmubing your snobbish nose at us irrational Michael Jackson fans. But actually, think about it, if only both rightwingers and leftwing loons let their hair down occasionally and learned to shake a leg at some cool King of Pop beat, they would _REALLY_ be having fun _BEFORE_ dying instead of pretending to be having fun and a life too, to boot. :-)

Anonymous said...

Oldtimer, if you are not willing to loot at all the possible causes for the current state of BJP, RSS etc (as they did in 2004) then 2014 will be worse than 2009. If BJP could not do well in 2009 against lacklustre UPA rule + a duffer like Rahul as leader then future is going to be less bright; Arun Nehru is forecasting 60+ for BJP next time. One can blame ELMs (LOL - as hardly 20% public read that and many of them do not even vote), EVMs, EC, Muslims and others but the fact is that Indians incl large part of Hinuds refused to vote for BJP! And, it BJP and its parent / fraternal organisations do not do an honest self-introspection and then real correction (ideas, leadership, communications, discipline, image), then there is not much future for them (it applies to CPM too)! From what I read here, many other blogs/websites, or one sees in lemming-like conduct of BJP leadership, that seems to be very unlikely! That is sad as, unlike most other parties save Left parties and JD(U), BJP is (at least was) not personal property of a family or person! But one can not be so sure now!

charuvak said...

Did Swapanda give up on this blog ? No new post since July 4th!

Anonymous said...

How come so quiet nowadays, Swapan?

Surely theres enough going on for you to comment on - the sellout to Pakistan in the joint statement for one, any updates on how the BJP plans to rebuild itself etc..

Oldtimer said...

Dear Swapan,

Allow me to tap into the popularity of your blog to bring attention to some very noteworthy commentary from RealityCheck blogger:

http://realitycheck.wordpress.com/2009/07/18/media-attacks-hate-speech-target-mayawati/

mpanj said...

Gopi,

Looks like you read these newspapers but don’t understand anything.

The fact that you bring up such juvenile points to support your arguments (I read news papers, giveaway money) tells us one thing:

even you’re convinced that your arguments don’t hold merit.

Modi’s electoral victory:

1. I was referring to the state elections of Dec 2007. An almost 2/3rds majority in a third term – unheard of for a state the size of Gujarat.
2. In fact if those elections were held post-delimitation (may be you have read about this little exercise) Modi would have won 135 seats.
3. That state election was a direct referendum on NaMo’s policies, actions and accomplishments.


Gujarat’s Accomplishments:

Yes Gujaratis are industrious, hardworking, and ingenious in business. But all that is OUTSIDE Gujarat.

Lets go down the list – Sarabhai does not count as Indians from allover have shown great success in the field of science.

Look at your own list – Lalbhai and Ambani.

Lalbhai did establish his company in Gujarat – but it started and operated as a trading firm for a long time before taking the plunge and mfg. denim.

Dhirubhai chose Mumbai and M’rastra.

Now lets look at others – how about the Tatas – Jamesehdpur, pune, etc. Nothing of note in their native Gujarat.

What does that tell you. Yes Gujaratis can turn sand to gold – but they have done so mostly outside Gujarat.

Before NaMo came along Gujarat was largely a trading hub.

On both Industrialization and Agriculture it did not feature even in the top 10.

All top Gujaratis operated in other parts of India and the world.

Gujarat was beset with a cycle of famine (kutch), plague(surat), bad infrastructure – power, water, education, etc.

Even now NaMo is working really hard to build an education infrastructure that can provide skilled Gujarati labor to the growing industrial complex.

Other than the IIM and NID in Ahmedabad, Gujarat was not known to have a strong educational infrastructure.

Lets look at post NaMo:

2nd Highest industrial investment growth – second to M’rastra.

(NOTE: M’rastra includes investments in the stock market in their figures – if we go by investment in industrial infrastructure alone, Gujarat is at par).

ONLY state in the country to achieve double digit agricultural growth for the past 3-4 years running.

How is it that farmers of M’rastra and Andhra and Kerala commit suicide and Gujarat’s farmers are prosperous enough to export their produce?

The difference is NaMo.

Unless you argue that farmers from these other states are lazy and only Gujarati farmers are industrious – that would be sick. BTW, your friend Vagela made just such an argument in 2007 – you may have read it in your many newspapers.

Power situation:

ONLY state in the country to provide 24 hour power supply – post NaMo. Did Gujarat have that anytime in its past.

Has any other state accomplished the same?

Gujarat Riots:

NaMo offered his resignation – ABV turned it down. Again, the fact that you have to go to Israel and find Meir to bolster your arguments speaks volumes on the state of Indian politics.

Modi is a rear gem. We wont allow the likes of you to besmirch his name and accomplishments.

Gopi, you claim not to be influenced by ELM, but your arguments are a ‘cut and paste’ job from these channels.

Anonymous said...

Did Swapanda give up on this blog ? No new post since July 4th!
-------------------------------------
Yup I think so. He was showing indication of giving up earlier also. He is just doing copy paste of already published article, no new fresh blog. Suspect whether he is moderating blog or somebody else is doing it!

Anonymous said...

wheres dark lord.
PLease respond to my post showing that congress vote had the muslim block subtantially anw won
enough to get 206.

so the key here is dont perform.just mobilize muslim vote before elections thru stunts like
muthalik,varun gujarat riots,modi as pm
by bribing all the media stooges with bailout,adverts etc from swiss loot.tehelka stunts like pink chaddi and guj 2002 surface
before elections.
everyone of the sceular politicians beg for muslim vote.
and this is growing.
so paswan a mister welcomes bangladeshis to break the law.osama loookalikes,arresst of avani by laloo.easy way to win just impress muslims by preelection stunts like hyping varun tape,modi for pm which was factually false

and since this is indi run by castrated pretty hindus,a mister breaking the law is fine.

soren was absconding,balu raja scams,all fine.

but varun shuld behave and so shuld modi,they are ugly hindus.

looting a poor country where children go hungry and stashing it in swiss bank,(so that congress and their brats like manu sharma who killed jessica lal for alcohol in a country that does not get water) such aiyashi is fine

bjp was in opposition for 5 years.

yet bjp is to blame for last 10 years.

and congress 60 year misrule is no problem.
only in india jiahdi paid gopis can get away with this.

th elmafia is campaigning against he opposition when in civilized countries everyone knows the govt is in power and has the power to take responsibility.

but india scum with hindu names ill blame bjp for last 10 years even if congree ruled for 95 %
time.

media watchdog of govtin decnt countries.in indiamafia campaign againt opposition
helped by agents like gopi.
disgusting.

and they pose so holy.bloody frauds.

gandhi and nehru screwedup .no fore sight needed.

nehru created kashmir problem.his own community is extinct from kashmir.no problem.

but modi shuld visit hooch victims.

no one need visit kashmir refugees in delhi.

our jihadi gopi shuld do thatin nehru's palce.

modi shud have foresight.because he is bjp.

1000 wrongs r fine but 1001 st wrong does not make a right because it ahppens to be bjp wrong.

disgusting there are such evil creatures around

Anonymous said...

wheres dark lord.
PLease respond to my post showing that congress vote had the muslim block subtantially anw won
enough to get 206.

so the key here is dont perform.just mobilize muslim vote before elections thru stunts like
muthalik,varun gujarat riots,modi as pm
by bribing all the media stooges with bailout,adverts etc from swiss loot.tehelka stunts like pink chaddi and guj 2002 surface
before elections.
everyone of the sceular politicians beg for muslim vote.
and this is growing.
so paswan a mister welcomes bangladeshis to break the law.osama loookalikes,arresst of avani by laloo.easy way to win just impress muslims by preelection stunts like hyping varun tape,modi for pm which was factually false

and since this is indi run by castrated pretty hindus,a mister breaking the law is fine.

soren was absconding,balu raja scams,all fine.

but varun shuld behave and so shuld modi,they are ugly hindus.

looting a poor country where children go hungry and stashing it in swiss bank,(so that congress and their brats like manu sharma who killed jessica lal for alcohol in a country that does not get water) such aiyashi is fine

bjp was in opposition for 5 years.

yet bjp is to blame for last 10 years.

and congress 60 year misrule is no problem.
only in india jiahdi paid gopis can get away with this.

th elmafia is campaigning against he opposition when in civilized countries everyone knows the govt is in power and has the power to take responsibility.

but india scum with hindu names ill blame bjp for last 10 years even if congree ruled for 95 %
time.

media watchdog of govtin decnt countries.in indiamafia campaign againt opposition
helped by agents like gopi.
disgusting.

and they pose so holy.bloody frauds.

gandhi and nehru screwedup .no fore sight needed.

nehru created kashmir problem.his own community is extinct from kashmir.no problem.

but modi shuld visit hooch victims.

no one need visit kashmir refugees in delhi.

our jihadi gopi shuld do thatin nehru's palce.

modi shud have foresight.because he is bjp.

1000 wrongs r fine but 1001 st wrong does not make a right because it ahppens to be bjp wrong.

disgusting there are such evil creatures around

Anonymous said...

arvind,

take a logic test man.u only have a stubborn ego which u dont desereve.u dont getit even after someone tries to educate u free.

forcing a private shool to change its rules according to one student's islamic beliefs is
violating the rights of that school,get it geniass.that is what the judge called talibanization.

what u think about th school and sarcozy is irrelevant and u can shuv your opinions up your rear where the farts belong, fartbag.

and u r so idiotic,u think u are smarter
tha a sc judge.when u cannot even uderstand the
taliban comment.

u actually thought he said beard is taliban.

which is like saying manmohan sigh is taliban because he has beard and millions of others
like amitabh bachan.

u r shameless man.majors like urs have a lowets cutoof of 50 % and they fill up the media full of themselves like u.they actually theink they r smart like nandita das ba geography and certify and judge others.too bad the marks in school expose that delusion.

hopeless man.Stick to writing novels if u r english lit major or whatever u did in college.

dont get into areas like law and logic that u have no cle about in with that 50 % bottom ranked performance in school

even a crow will know he is not a swan.

beter still go and replace some saner inmate in a mental home.

u think u r god man certifying evms as if u r god.yeah katju and experts are less knowledgeable than self appointed god

Anonymous said...

hey gopi when cornered your mafia does this.

man u have been after modi and bjp alone and
have campaigned against it even better than jihadis,isi and congress just like ur media-mafia frauds.

and now when someone brings up congress sins of 60 years 1000 times over,u say oh yeah now that u have cornered me.i criticize congres tot.

look at ur posts slime.u r doing a bettere job than jiahdis and mafia and congres in baiting bjp and bjp only.

make sure u get welel paid,u dersve it for your gold medal winning fraud and duplicity.

one line for congress sins when exposed.

one thousand lines only for bjp and oh with such fake moral outrage.lowest life man.


congress ruled for 95 % time and u are blind to that.u do not even have eyes to raed your previous posts.

donate ur eyes to the blind. atleast they have brains and will know how to use ur eyes which
u r abusing and u dont ahve any brains to donate anyway.

Anonymous said...

ANON, your and yuor likes really need medical help - a good psyshologist may help you. If this is the level of dsicourse you can come up with, it is no wonder 81% voters of India refused to support BJP! I talked about BJP b/c we are talking about causes for BJP's twin defeats and any ideas for revival. Hence, we focus on BJP. We can talk about Cong sins till cows come home but that is unlikely to revive BJP's fortunes! You have your point of view, I have my views and others have theirs - everyone has his or her "opinion" - one can shout loudly, harshly or abuse those who hold contrary views as ISI agent etc but that is not going to make your opinion (or mine) a fact or revive BJP's fortunes. And, seeing the kind of language you use and intolerance you show towards others, you are not much different from those jehadis - you and they (like our Commie pals) two sides of the same counterfeit coin! I do not consider everyone who is opposed to BJP or Modi or any other P's/D's as anti-national, traitor or jehadi. I have no monopoly over either patriotism or wisdom to call others such names. I support BJP only for one reason: it is not habitually an anti-Hindu. Otherwise, this party and its leaders have same ills that plague any other party or politician in India. If BJP has more likes fo you, it will be reduced to the 1984 status it once had.
Again, I sincerely hope, you consult a shrink soon for your own good.

Anonymous said...

Mpanj, Here are facts:
Vikram S was scientist but Sarabhai group was founded by his father, Ambalal; Calico Mills were once among the laregst textile producers in India.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambalal_Sarabhai

You are talking about present Arvind Mill; I was ref to Arvind N's father, Narottam and N's bro, Kasturbhai, founders of Lalbhai Group which until early 80's had 7 textile mills just in A'bad.
http://jainsamaj.org/children/kasturbhai.htm

First factory set up by Reliance was in Naroda, near A'bad (Vimal fabrics, yarn etc made there). RIL built petrochem plants in Patalganga in 80's after it made fortunes in yarn.

I forgot to mention Mafatlals, also dominant in textile; first factories were set up in Gujarat by founder, Mafatlal Gagalbhai.

I got my facts right. A little bit of humility and desire to consider others' views without calling names will help everyone.

You are free to believe that all good in Gujarat is b/c of Modi; I do not but that does not make me or others like me jehadi/ISI agent.
About 2007: BJP (49%)vs INC-NCP (39%)- 10.7m & 8.5m resp. You may consider this overwhelming, I do not. Sheela D got a similar mandate in Delhi 3rd time so no big deal. BTW, that was his 2nd win, not 3rd (2002 & 2007).

Anonymous said...

Mpanj,
Again, check the facts: Gujarat was for long among a leading chem / fert producers as also petrocehm (IFFCO, Kribhco, GSFC, GNFC, Tata Hecm, IPCL, IOC, GACL, Reilance Petrochem, the first RIL Refinery, Essar Oil, Essar Steel, Grasim's sponge iron plant, Atul, Indian Rayon's Veraval plants, GFCL, cement plants of Mehtas / Birlas, Guj Heavy Chem) plus the textile mills in A'bad (then 2nd largest ones after Mumbai), Baroda, Surat, Navsari, Kalol, etc. - all these were set up long before anyone even heard of Modi. And all despite Gujarat not being a mineral rich state. The Narmada project was started long before he even entered politics - all Guj CMs incl Modi are to be given credit for that, not just him -BTW, most of the work was finished before he became CM.

Anonymous said...

Mpanj, If you want to resign, no one can prevent you from doing that, even ABV. Advani resigned too recently - LOL. Please give me a break. I gave Golda Meir's example because that is the prime example of a leader taking moral responsibilty(something our own Nehru did not do). I can only think of Shastriji who did in India. And, Solanki did (or was forced to do) after the A'abd riots in 1985.

Anonymous said...

ANON, what is the basis of your "facts" on Muslim votes? Do you have data from EC? Some survey? Your private survey? It is just your conjecture that all Muslims voted and 80% for Cong and hence not many Hindu voted for Cong / UPA. Well, Raj, MP, Haryana, Punjab, Uttranchal, HP, Chatisgarh, Delhi - these states do not have large M-population (or confined to a few seats, eg, Tonk in Raj, Mewat in Haryana etc) and now count how many crores of votes Cong got in these states. Which should lead to analysis as to why and what can be done to change the trend. Abusing or calling us jehadis will not get BJP one extra vote - may lose a bunch as it did in 2009. What the entire Khaki Parivaar needs is someone like the late William Buckely Jr who started an intellectual movement to cleanse GOP of what he called "kooks" and make Republican Party a modern, forward looking one.

Anonymous said...

I compiled this info from EC data: Combined data for Har, HP, MP, Or, Pn, Raj, Chs, Jha, Utr, Chandi, Delhi

Votes polled: 56.1% (national avg: 58.4%)

Parties Votes %
Congress 41.4m 39.6
BJP + Allies 36.6m 34.9
BSP 5.4m 5.4
BJD 6.6m 6.3
Jhar Ps 2.6m 2.5
Indep 5.6m 5.3

Total 104.8m

These states have small Muslim population but still accounted for 35% of votes recd by Cong in entire country (119.1m) and slightly higher than the votes recd by BJP+INLO+JD+SAD! I have more faith in real data than pop theories floated by psychologically impaired people.

Anonymous said...

I expect you to also post my replies about Gujarati entrepeneurs as also industries in pre-Modi Gujarat!

Anonymous said...

Lest anyone accuses of data mining, here are state wide details; one can parse whichever one likes but that is unlikely to change the conclusion:

State TOT CONG BJP+ BSP INDEP

Harya 8.16 3.41 2.27 1.28 0.21
HP 2.69 1.23 1.33 0.04 0.04
MP 19.48 7.82 8.49 1.14 0.96
Orissa 17.76 5.82 3.00 0.34 0.41
Punjab 11.83 5.35 5.19 0.68 0.27
Rajas 17.93 8.46 6.64 0.60 1.67
Chattis 8.55 3.19 3.86 0.39 0.84
Jhar 9.14 1.37 2.63 0.32 1.02
Uttara 3.14 1.35 1.06 0.48 0.09
Chandi 0.34 0.16 0.10 0.06 0.01
Delhi 5.75 3.29 2.03 0.31 0.06

Total 104.78 41.45 36.60 5.64 5.58
Source: ECI

And, if one also adds the 2004 votes, it will make BJP's performance even worse (its vote share went down from 22+ to 18+ percent!

Anonymous said...

Excl Orissa, it looks like this:
State TOT CONG BJP+ BSP INDEP

Harya 8.16 3.41 2.27 1.28 0.21
HP 2.69 1.23 1.33 0.04 0.04
MP 19.48 7.82 8.49 1.14 0.96
Punjab 11.83 5.35 5.19 0.68 0.27
Rajas 17.93 8.46 6.64 0.60 1.67
Chattis 8.55 3.19 3.86 0.39 0.84
Jhar 9.14 1.37 2.63 0.32 1.02
Uttara 3.14 1.35 1.06 0.48 0.09
Chandi 0.34 0.16 0.10 0.06 0.01
Delhi 5.75 3.29 2.03 0.31 0.06

Total 87.02 35.63 33.60 5.31 5.17

Still Cong votes > BJP+. And, generally, a larger portion of BSP voters comes from Cong than BJP! Cut whichever way, it was what George W called in 2006 a resounding thumbing by Indian voters. Now, either BJP and its supporters / sympathisers look at this honestly to come up with "real" solutuions or they can shout/abuse anyone dare to question "adhikaris" or "leader(s)" as jehadis/ISI agent or whatever is in the Khaki demonology. But that is NOT going to get votes than it did in 2004 or 2009. There is a Hindi word: Atma pravanchana (self-delusion) that fits perfectly for BJP and the lot here.

Anonymous said...

If possible, please change Thumbing to "Thumping". Thank you.

Anonymous said...

One clarification:
I use Khaki, not Saffron, for RSS and its subs as I believe our media wrongly call it saffron; saffron belongs to ALL Indic traditions, not RSS or SS, and has been, and contiues to be, a most sacred symbol in Vedic, Buddhist and Sikh traditions!

Anonymous said...

Here is data for all states (in millions):

State Tot Cong BJP BSP Indep

Andhra 42 16 2 0 1
AP 1 0 0 - 0
Assam 12 4 2 - 1
Bihar 24 2 3 1 3
Goa 1 0 0 - 0
Guj 17 8 8 0 1
Harya 8 3 1 1 0
HP 3 1 1 0 0
J&K 3 1 0 0 0
Karna 25 9 10 0 1
Kerala 16 6 1 0 1
MP 19 8 8 1 1
Maha 37 7 7 2 3
Mani 1 1 0 - 0
Megha 1 0 - - 0
Mizo 0 0 - - 0
Naga 1 0 - - -
Orissa 18 6 3 0 0
Punjab 12 5 1 1 0
Raj 18 8 7 1 2
Sikkim 0 0 0 - 0
TN 30 5 1 0 1
Tripura 2 1 0 - 0
UP 55 10 10 15 3
WB 43 6 3 0 1
Chattis 9 3 4 0 1
Jhar 9 1 3 0 1
Uttara 3 1 1 0 0
Andam 0 0 0 0 0
Chandi 0 0 0 0 0
Dadra 0 0 0 0 0
Daman 0 0 0 - 0
Delhi 6 3 2 0 0
Laksha 0 0 0 - -
Pondi 1 0 0 0 0

Total 417 119 78 26 22

Anonymous said...

Yes, BJP lost the election, so, should they all be hanged? better still, India should be declared a monarchy, and Rahul baba be declared the crown(or clown or whatever) prince. the cost cutting thus achieved will go a long way to reduce India's fiscal deficit. Pranabda can then take all the credit for that.

mpanj said...

Gopi,

Let me rebut your inane arguments with their own contradiction.

But before we get there let me say this: Your arguments are further proof that you do belong to the psec brigade – the NDTV/CNNIBNs of the world. You grew up in the same schools and are using this platform not to initiate a serious debate on the future of the BJP but to obfuscate the issue – with a one point agenda – Hate Modi.

Lets look at Reliance.

For your information Dhirubhai did not first make his fortune in mfg. His biggest money spinner (which provided the seed capital for his mfg. ventures) was the Rayon-Polyester trade scheme (I don’t remember the exact name) – wherein he exported Rayon at a loss just so that he could get the licenses to import Polyester which was in great demand and the difference in price was 200%. It is rumored that this scheme was his brain child.

That said. Let me describe what Patalganga looked like when he first considered that site for his Petrochem complex. It was barren land with no infrastructure. I repeat NO infrastructure – no connecting roads, no assured water supply, no skilled or semi-skilled manpower, nothing.

His only incentive was the 10 year tax holiday M’rasta govt. game him.

Now lets turn your argument on its head.

Dhirubhai (who I consider the smartest businessman of the 20th century – period) was so stupid that he gave up his infrastructure-rich, vibrant, prosperous Gujarat, filled with hardworking gujaratis and a friendly, competent Congress govt. and a place where he already had a very successful yarn mfg. unit and selected a barren piece of land in M’rastra.

WOW!!!!

No he did it because – even with the shortcomings of Patalganga – it was a better place to establish such a plant than Gujarat.

Apart from a few pockets – Gujarat was backward – Ahmedabad+ is not Gujarat – you must include Kutch, Saurastra, etc..

So now lets look at what makes NaMo’s leadership so impressive:

mpanj said...

So now lets look at what makes NaMo’s leadership so impressive:

Administration:

The Nano project is a perfect example. After that communal, fascist Ratan Tata decided to exit communist Bengal he had offers from almost every state – with K’nataka and Gujarat being the front runners.

So why did he pick Gujarat – better still when he first conceived Nano why didn’t he first pick Gujarat….hmmmm. After all Gujarat was always great. Interesting isn’t it.

It took NaMo several years to dismantle the ‘always efficient’ Gujarat and set its industrial policy right.

The fact is under NaMo administrative procedures have been rationalized. Nano got approved within 3 days (7 days if you want to really nitpick). That would not have been the case 3 years prior when Nano was conceived and RT made his initial decision.

7 DAYS – your Congress brothers couldn’t swat the fly on their desks in 7 days.

And did the farmers who willingly gave up land for Nano protest – Nah. Those damn fascist Gujarati farmers.

And how did NaMo do this.

a. He documented land records.
b. He passed a legislation that required all industrialists to buy land directly from land owners at market prices– curtailing the state’s ‘eminent Domain’ powers.
a. Compare that to M’rastra where the Raigad farmers had to fight Mukesh Ambani because the Govt. was forcing them to sell their fertile land to Reliance at throw-away prices.
b. And ofcourse places like Orissa and Bengal where Posco and Tata have run into problems.
c. Gujarat is the only state in the country where SEZs haven’t created problems
WHY???? NaMo has a simple policy with SEZ.
a. He wont allow a SEZ to turn into a Real Estate development – it must be used for industrial development
b. He forces promoters to buy land at market prices directly from land owners.

Corruption:

Gopi, give me the name of one political leader in India that is both incorruptible and enforces the same standards with his administration. ONE.

Yes MMS, LKA, AK Anthony, etc. are clean – but they duck and tolerate the worst offenders in this regard.

Oh yes and those great political leaders of Gujarat that came before Modi – Solanki, Vaghela, Keshubhai, Mehta…paragons of fiscal propriety. Right???

Agriculture:

You haven’t given me any figures on Agricultural production in Gujarat prior to 2001.

So I don’t know your stand on NaMo’s achievements in this regard.

It had no agricultural production to speak of – now it has double digit growth in Agri. Production.

This production took place during NaMo’s regime. No one else can lay claim to it. Not Keshubhai not Solanki no one but NaMo.

Water scarcity was endemic. I remember visiting A’dabad in the late 80s and people were drawing water from wells. In a city one had heard so much about. Water from wells. In well heeled neigborhoods.

The cleaning up of the Kankaria lake in A’dabad is being hailed allover India as a case study in Urban renewal.

Surat’s plague (1994) was the first bubonic plague anywhere in the world in 25 odd years.

Today Surat is considered a model city in regards to urban waste management.

Courage:

The reason NaMo attracts so much attention is because he is uncompromising. And that is what the media hates about him.

What leader (anywhere in the world) would imprison farmers for power theft and refuse an amnesty on eve of the most important political battle of his life.

What leader would create political rivals (Keshubhai, Zadaphia) by refusing to allow the rape of the exchequer?

What leader would take on centuries old prejudice against the girl child and confront his own committed voters to address this wretched curse.

This man is a rare gem in the history of Independent India.

Protecting him in any small way we can is our duty as responsible citizens.

Take your hate-Modi blinkers off. Read the facts – they cannot be denied.

NaMo is the answer.

mpanj said...

Oh and one more point.

Sheila Dixit's victory - impressive as it may be - does not compare to Modi's 3rd term - yes 3rd term - 2001-2002, 2002-2007 and 2007-present.

1. Delhi is a city state - not a state the size of Gujarat where the challenges are manifold and diverse.

2. The Delhi CM has limited span of responsibility which in turn means she is not held responsibile for things such as law and order, price rise, etc.

3. Other smaller states have also had CMs that have won 3 successive terms - Mizoram is the obvious one that comes to mind.

Compare NaMo to a state of his size and only Bengal comes to mind. But we know how the communists have held and won power there. They are paying for their sins... but that's another story.

p.s. This Dixit argument is more proof that you have blinkers on and are nurtured on the anti-Modi tirade of Barkha/Sardesai/Singhvi.

mpanj said...

You came up with a laundry list of industrialists.

No one has ever denied that Gujarat had wealth.

Ofcourse it did – Marathas sacked baroda several times when it operated as a Mughal trading post. And this was 3-400 years back.

Would you like to go further back.

But all that wealth was restricted to a few pockets. It did not mean, Gujarat had 24 hour power supply (NaMo provided it), Water for irrigation (I will come to Narmada later), Rural roads, Strong and growing agriculture.

In short where was the infrastructure?

Where ever govt. has controlled things, India has deteriorated. Gujarat under NaMo is the exception.

I made a point in an early post. The best way to judge NaMo is to compare Gujarat AND M’rastra during his 8 year tenure.

Why M’rastra – because it serves as a great control group.

Just look at the problems plaguing M’rastra.

Power – even a top tier city like Pune is experiencing massive power shortage
Gujarat – Under Modi (and he alone) is experiencing 24 power supply

Water – Gujarat has built over 1+ lakh ponds and check dams.
M’rastra – 15,000

Farmer suicides: Enough Said.

Female feticide – Gujarat was in the top 5 states. NaMo at great political risk shamed his citizens (his own committed voters) and faced this monster head on.

Broad Band Connectivity: Hillary Clinton referred to ‘new technologies’ in education during her ongoing visit to India. NaMo is 2 years ahead of her!!!!

What does BB do – it helps take education, healthcare and other information intensive functions to rural areas without having to build massive physical infrastructure.

Talk about being a Visionary.

BTW, Gujarat is the only state in Asia that has 100% rural BB connectivity.

Narmada and Water Management:

1. No one has claimed that Modi was responsible for starting or conceptualizing the Narmada Dam. So stop these Geobbelsian tactics. But he did get it completed and how. First he neutralized Medha Patkar. His seven years in office completely decimated the NBA.
2. He politically neutralized that Central Congress minister (Saifuddin Soz?) who tried to restrict the height of the Dam
3. He rapidly built the canals that have not only taken Narmada’s water to Kutch but also to parts of MP and R’jasthan.
4. NaMo’s govt. was responsible for reenergizing Sabarmati with water from Narmada.
5. Kankeria lake clean up (referred to this in an earlier post)

Now please pull your head out of the ground and give us some comparable examples from across the political spectrum of CMs/PMs etc. who have achieved anything of this magnitude in this short a time span.

Waiting.....

mpanj said...

Gopi,

one last point:

"About 2007: BJP (49%)vs INC-NCP (39%)- 10.7m & 8.5m resp. You may consider this overwhelming, I do not. Sheela D got a similar mandate in Delhi 3rd time so no big deal. BTW, that was his 2nd win, not 3rd (2002 & 2007)."

You dont consider it overwhelming....that is further proof that you have blinkers on.

Rajiv Gandhi won 400 seats with a 49% vote in 1984. The opposition was divided so the margin was definitely higher.

Was that 49% overwhelming - i bet it was. But you better check with Barkha.

The fact that Modi has faced a united opposition with no BSP to fragment opposition votes, is further proof of what the people of Gujarat think.

You and your ilk, can go nuts arguing against pre-, post- Modi Gujarat.

But the proof lies in the mandate Gujarati voters keep giving NaMo.

Anonymous said...

hey gopi dont fake moral outrage lowest life,

ur standards are not equally applied.u were waxing pompously on gujarta and modi foresight and then when rajiv,gandhi nehru,mumbai 93 etc etc guj 69,85, genoicede in kashmir,buddhadeb's nandi gram is pointed out to u.

u come back with a swollen ego and pique.

u say i criticize congress too.yeah where?

get your commision from mafia and jihaids like teesta she is flush with arabian dollars against
modi and bjp.the isi will be impressed to.

u are parroting the nonsense of the media-mafia.

that hindus did not vote and shuld be mobilized for bjp is fine but that congress has ihate bjp communal secular startegy to mobilize muslim vote is known to all for deacdades from shahbnao

Anonymous said...

Who said BJP should be hanged? The question is: why did BJP-led NDA lose the 2009 election to an UPA which was not as united like 2004, UPA's perf was sub-par, high infaltion, terrorist strikes in major cities, mega scandals of Raja-Balu, image of Fake Singh Dhongi tainted by the horse-trading in nuke deal votes, losses in many state elections, etc! Was it leadership, style, campaign issues, policy measures, image, ideology, or a combo of above all? I have seen ELM being blamed but how many Indians follow ELMs? BJP lost seats-votes almost everywehre except a few states whereas Congress improved seats-votes almost everywhere. The diff between the two rose from <2% in 2004 (due to more seats contested by Cong) rose to almost 10% in 2009! That is a BIG spread. Now, BJP and its supporters can either look at this from all angles, do genuine introspection, find honest answers and then take real measures to correct the trend. Win or loss is par the course in democracy but behaving like a shuturmurg (nothing is wrong), or gloating at even higher loss of Left, blaming all and sundry but ourself, absuing/calling names whose offering contrary / unpalatable views - this will not solve BJP's problems or get it extra votes to win. They did same thing in 2004 and see what happened. Congress is now more entrenched and confident (over confident, perhaps) than any time since 1984. And, look at the Yadavi in BJP as also the wider Parivaar. I do wonder what Dr Hedgewar is thinking: An organisation founded to unite entire Hindu Samaj could not even unite itself. A very sad situation when we have an utmost need for a genuine pro-Hindu, modern, forward-looking, civilised party in India!

Anonymous said...

Hello. Jayalalitha has announced that her party is boycotting upcoming elections due to the EVM and Election Commission rigging issues in the just concluded elections.

Is BJP going to follow a similar plan for the coming assembly elections?

Anonymous said...

On Modi -

3. He rapidly built the canals that have not only taken Narmada’s water to Kutch but also to parts of MP and R’jasthan


Slight correction here. Gujarat has used pipelines in a big way to supply Narmada water over long distances. Breaking from the Indian orthodoxy that requires building canals allowed the work to get done faster (no land acquistion issues) with minimum loss of water in transit.

Anonymous said...

Anon: I do hope you go and see a shrink! You live in USA so there will be many and easy to locate, And, given the liberal health-care system of many companies there, perhaps fully covered as well. What a pityful life!

Anonymous said...

Narendra Modi is a mass murderer. He may be a great administrator, but still should be lynched.

Anonymous said...

MP: I know my business history. He made some money in yarn trading; then rented looms in Bhiwandi to earn EERs (which used to be sold at premium in the glorious days of Nehruvian Socialist India). With that money as equity, he set up his first factory in Naroda, Ahmedabad. I do not know why he set up a factory in Narorda, one in Patalganga, one in South Guj, one in Jamnagar, etc., may be you have access to privilleged info; I go by public info.
I listed all those big names in chem inds in reply to your comment that Guj did not have much industry before Modi.
I wonder if any of you will be willing to lose even one arm, leave aside life, in exchange for a 24-hr power, water, road, etc. Pl check with the members of those 1,200 who will never come back!
You have right to believe what you like; I have no problem with that. I do not question your motives. I have freedom to believe in what I consider right and moral conduct is. But, that does NOT make me a jehadi or agent of ISI. As the 2007 data shows, 51% of Gujaratis did NOT vote for Modi and they know first hand all the good and not-so-good things he has done for Gujarat. Are they all also jehadis?
About 3rd term, Modi became CM mid-way thru after Keshubhai resigned. There was no state election in 2001 so he won two, not three!
Delhi: A diverse Delhi is more rep of India than Guj can ever be.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous @12:48,

Who should do what? Would you do that yourself?

CID said...

Hello Blogger. Please post the IP address of Anonymous@12:48. I wish to file a FIR under sections 503 and 506.

Anonymous said...

The real Modi story
http://www.livemint.com/2009/01/21220302/The-real-Modi-story.html

Salil Tripathi

Anonymous said...

This blog is full of nuts!

mpanj said...

Gopi,

You are yet to respond to any of my arguments regarding finding a leader with the accomplishments of NaMo in the past 25 years.

Power distribution, Girl Child, Education, Roads, Nano…..anything, anyone.

Power reforms – interesting link:

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/power-regulators-recommend-gujarat-model-for/362814/

The only instance of a resignation being tendered – you had to leave the sub-continent or go back to 1960 – Shastriji. Wow!!!

So let me answer your question regarding Gujarat’s industrialization.

Mafatlals – this is the same family whose daughter underwent a sex change operation in 2007-08 just so she and her mother could retain the family apartment in South Mumbai.

This is the same ‘great industrial builders of Gujarat’ whose daughter-in-law was arrested a few weeks back at Mumbai airport with her jewels.

Unless you are suggesting that the Mafatlals went defunct in the last 7 years post Modi takeover, this only proves my point:

The examples you give regarding Gujarat’s history are old – Sarabais, Mafatlals, etc.

Sarabhai (according to the links you provided) date back to the early 20th century.

Why don’t you go back to Adam and Eve to prove your point.

By that same yardstick Bihar and Bengal were way ahead of most states at the time of Independence. And look where they have gone.

Shashi Ruia’s steel plant took over 10 years to come online – the super efficient Gujarat Congress ensured that.

Infact people in the 80s compared Essar group’s snail’s pace to Dhirubhai’s lightining strikes.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the Ruia’s still haven’t paid back their loans. They had cases filed against them in the 90s.

Aah and the PSUs:

Note the dates on these links carefully.

Here are two links for your perusal:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/12200203.cms

Date: 2002, NOTE: Gujarat Alkali is listed as ‘another loss making unit’.

http://www.mysinchew.com/node/4940
Date: 2007
NOTE: “Gujarat Alkalies, analysts say, will be the prize catch. Two big corporates--Reliance Industries and DCM--are already eyeing for the company.”
Most Gujarat PSUs were loss making when NaMo took over (like PSUs in the rest of India). He broke from the practice of making political appointments to the heads of these units and used the celebrated Gujarati enterprise to revive them.

He divested ones that were loss making and turnaround ones which could be turned around using professional managers.

Having industrial units in not enough to prove the vibrancy of the local economy.

Soviet Union was highly industrialized – producing ‘great’ cars and showing the world what the hardworking people of Russia could achieve.

Sounds kind of like your argument vis-à-vis Gujarat.

Infact your point is insulting to non-Gujaratis.

The fact is that all Indians are enterprising and hardworking.

Look at the examples from around the world: Indra Nooyi, Vikram Pandit, Bose, Mittal, etc.

The difference is Governance. India’s Achilles’ heel has been its politicians. Given a conducive environment, most Indians can excel. We could produce another 1000 Dhirubhais in no time.

And this is what differentiates NaMo from the crowd. He provides that environment.

mpanj said...

Let me repeat his qualities and please, I beg you, find me another leader (preferably Indian – no one of Israeli, Palestinian lineage please) that can match even half of these qualities:

1. Incorruptible
2. Hardworking
3. Visionary (Power distribution, Broadband connectivity)
4. Honest (refusal to tolerate corruption)
5. Courageous (taking on power theft, female feticide, terror)
6. Dedicated (no family promotions)
7. Strong
8. Humble
9. Delivers results (Power, piped gas to most of urban Gujarat, water management, education)
10. Ingenuity


The fact that you keep throwing up Sheila Dixit and Delhi as examples to counter NaMo betrays your pro-congress leanings.

The Delhi govt. is no more than a municipality. Compared to a state the size and complexity of Gujarat, Delhi is a tiny city state.

Besides, the Delhi govt. has limited responsibility and in turn is held responsible for few of the problems facing the city.

Gujarat is not just Amdavad, it’s Kutch, Saurastra, Baroda, etc.

Also, Delhi is heavily subsidized in many ways – given that India’s high and mighty live there.

49% v/s 51% - WTH. Are you smoking something.

It is a little known political system called Democracy. Something you Emergency-hungry, leftists Congresswadis will never understand.

I gave you the example of Rajiv Gandhi and his clean sweep in 1984. He too had won ‘just’ 49% of the votes.

That is how our democracy works – also that of Israel, Italy, etc.

Make some coherent arguments. No politician in the last 25 years has won an election with more than 50% vote (don’t give me small little states like delhi, Mizoram, etc.).

One last point:

On Modi -

3. He rapidly built the canals that have not only taken Narmada’s water to Kutch but also to parts of MP and R’jasthan

Slight correction here. Gujarat has used pipelines in a big way to supply Narmada water over long distances. Breaking from the Indian orthodoxy that requires building canals allowed the work to get done faster (no land acquistion issues) with minimum loss of water in transit.

So are you admitting that this was another NaMo innovation (surely for India) where he was able to use his ingenuity to get things done.

Anonymous said...

I suspect that blogger who called Modi a mass murdere must be a traitor Sanghvi in disguise. I don't know for whom these guys cry for. Whenever I debate Gujarat issue with my friends I always justify it by saying: spontaneous, uncontrolable Hindu anger. I don't see any wrong in Gujarat riot. The Hindu-Muslim riots that happened post pre planned genocide by local Kuran following Muslims were perfetly justfied and I'm proud that Narendra bhai allowed the Hindu anger despite massive critism. I admire him for it. He's is turely a Mard ki aulad. We r gonna face the situation like Advani if we take apologetic stand on Gujarat riot. Be aggresive and your accusers will be on the defensive automatically. As simple as that.

iamfordemocracy said...

How do you know whether a leader means what he says? Just look at his actions over a period of time and you can draw your own conclusions. Advani has been talking about Hindus and India at the top of his voice for last 20 years. Many believe him. Many think he is inspirational and so on and so forth. Many others strongly believe that it is only a gimmick for grabbing attention and votes.

A few weeks before the recent elections Advani started a blog. We checked the last post on that blog recently. The date was 22nd April. It is about three months from that date and Advani hasn't felt a need to connect with his web audience. Some leader, he is. . He can fool some people all the times. Let us salute him.

mpanj said...

>>Swapanda I dont know if this comment went through the first time. Apologize if I have repeated it.

Gopi,

You are yet to respond to any of my arguments regarding finding a leader with the accomplishments of NaMo in the past 25 years.

Power distribution, Girl Child, Education, Roads, Nano…..anything, anyone.

Power reforms – interesting link:

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/power-regulators-recommend-gujarat-model-for/362814/

The only instance of a resignation being tendered – you had to leave the sub-continent or go back to 1960 – Shastriji. Wow!!!

So let me answer your question regarding Gujarat’s industrialization.

Mafatlals – this is the same family whose daughter underwent a sex change operation in 2007-08 just so she and her mother could retain the family apartment in South Mumbai.

This is the same ‘great industrial builders of Gujarat’ whose daughter-in-law was arrested a few weeks back at Mumbai airport with her jewels.

Unless you are suggesting that the Mafatlals went defunct in the last 7 years post Modi takeover, this only proves my point:

The examples you give regarding Gujarat’s history are old – Sarabais, Mafatlals, etc.

Sarabhai (according to the links you provided) date back to the early 20th century.

Why don’t you go back to Adam and Eve to prove your point.

By that same yardstick Bihar and Bengal were way ahead of most states at the time of Independence. And look where they have gone.

Shashi Ruia’s steel plant took over 10 years to come online – the super efficient Gujarat Congress ensured that.

Infact people in the 80s compared Essar group’s snail’s pace to Dhirubhai’s lightining strikes.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the Ruia’s still haven’t paid back their loans. They had cases filed against them in the 90s.

Aah and the PSUs.

Note the dates on these links carefully.

Here are two links for your perusal:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/12200203.cms

Date: 2002, NOTE: Gujarat Alkali is listed as ‘another loss making unit’.

http://www.mysinchew.com/node/4940
Date: 2007 NOTE: “Gujarat Alkalies, analysts say, will be the prize catch. Two big corporates--Reliance Industries and DCM--are already eyeing for the company.”
Most Gujarat PSUs were loss making when NaMo took over (like PSUs in the rest of India). He broke from the practice of making political appointments to the heads of these units and used the celebrated Gujarati enterprise to revive them.

He divested ones that were loss making and turnaround ones which could be turned around using professional managers.

Having industrial units in not enough to prove the vibrancy of the local economy.

Soviet Union was highly industrialized – producing ‘great’ cars and showing the world what the hardworking people of Russia could achieve.

Sounds kind of like your argument vis-à-vis Gujarat.

Infact your point is insulting to non-Gujaratis.

The fact is that all Indians are enterprising and hardworking.

Look at the examples from around the world: Indra Nooyi, Vikram Pandit, Bose, Mittal, etc.

The difference is Governance. India’s Achilles’ heel has been its politicians. Given a conducive environment, most Indians can excel. We could produce another 1000 Dhirubhais in no time.

And this is what differentiates NaMo from the crowd. He provides that environment.

mpanj said...

>>> wonder if any of you will be willing to lose even one arm, leave aside life, in exchange for a 24-hr power, water, road, etc. Pl check with the members of those 1,200 who will never come back!


What a sad comment this is. When all else fails use emotional exploitation.

There are several issues with this statement:

1. This is a tacit acknowledgement from you that NaMo has indeed provided good governance. All you’re saying is that is it worth the trade off.
2. Why don’t you ask the families of those M’rastrian farmers who are committing suicide at the rate of 2/day for the last 4-5 years.
3. Why don’t you ask the families of those infants who have died due to malnutrition and water borne diseases over the past 60 years – India continues to have one of the highest infant mortality rates in the world – with even countries in Africa doing better
Note: Modi’s scheme to offer doctors and midwives adequate compensation to safely deliver babies has resulted in a marked improvement in child birth fatalities (Mother and child) over the past 4 years.
4. Why don’t you ask the families of victims of terror who have been slaughtered mercilessly because people like you are more concerned with political correctness and appearing ‘secular’ than in fighting terror.
5. Why don’t you ask the farmers of Jarkhand who are petitioning the President to commit mass suicide due to repeated crop failure
6. Why don’t you ask those female fetuses and infants who have been aborted, drowned, buried alive for decades because no politician had the courage or the heart to stand up to this evil practice.

Gopi, I can go on and on. What gets my blood boiling is the simple fact that people like you have a single point agenda – destroy Modi.

And for what – for bringing about a fundamental shift in India’s political paradigm.
For what – one unfortunate incident – when politicians of every hue walk around, reveling in their immoral nakedness with nothing but their ever growing illicit wealth to show for it.

The list of politicians who presided over the worst riots in India’s history is long and ‘distinguished’

Rajiv Gandhi
Sharad Pawar
Mulayam Singh
Naveen Patnaik
SM Krishna
PV Narsimha Rao

Can one, ONE, of these political geniuses match their record on clean, efficient governance with that of NaMo?

I rest my case.

Anonymous said...

hey jihaidi agent with a hindu name gopi and now is afraid to use his name ,who hates modi more than kasab and musharaff here goes.
pearls before swines.modi is like a pearl and u r worse than a swine who cant appreciate that.
I will apologize to swines who r not traitors and against patriots

sonia won 142 seats in 2004 and your media mobter bros were calling it a great victory with bjp just afew seats behind

dumbass,ur analysis focuses on states with a lesser muslim population.so what.

dont you even know that in india the contests
are three to four cornered in many places.And evry vote can count.point is congress got 206 and won due the crucial muslim consolidation.dumbass no one is saying congress won all seats and no one is saying that in such a complex country there is only one reason.

even if muslims turn up and vote en block with a 10 % population in a state they could help the congress big time.See maharashtra and ap
where with rajthackeray congress stooge and even
fewer muslims than up,bengal,kerala congress did well.

everyone knows how crucial the muslim vote because they turn out,they are well populated and growing and u can win them by deals with mullahs and hyping gujarta,masjid,varun,modi as pm.no work needed.the muslims themselves complain that these secular parties only use their vote against bjp.and everyone is secular only for that reason the muslim vote.sonia calls them natural allies,maya arrest advani,laloo blames congress for masjid and he and paswan use osam look alikes which would be
an outrage in any nonmuslim country but not here
becuase here slave traitor hindus like u are counted as part of hindus.So everything goes like jaichand's case.

so even assuming evms r fine,which is questinable this muslim analysis holds for congress contribution. 206 shows that congress lost too but jo jita woh sikander and it did that with 142 in 2004.

Mulim vote is an islmic veto as swapan also said and the politicians know this.that is all there is to indian secularism.

jayalalitha has boycotted eletion due to evms.

wher is your taritor freind arvind.join him at namaz in the neighbourhood mosque wher they preach hate from the verses ass ball.

modi stopped hawala funds used for terror in gujarat.even one muslim cleric praised him because his mosque was not favore for those funds
but your elmfia gospel hides such details about modi.he goes and stays in villages in summer.

and swines like u dont know that,ask ur congress who live in aiyashi for 60 yrs and did little except loot and jhut.

now i am going to apologize to swines for comparing them to ulowest life who is working againsts patriots 48/7

Anonymous said...

MP: I do not hate Modi or want to detroy him. What I believe is:
(a) He was directly / morally responsible for the events of 2002 and totally failed in waht Atalji succinctly said in one word: Rajdharma! A poisoned chalice.
(b) Gujarat is what it is (has always been) because of the enterprising Gujaratis. You akse me about toher states:
TN under Rajaji / Kamraj / Bhaktavatsalam
Karnataka under Nijlingappa / KH / V Patil
Maha udner YB Chavan / VP Naik
Punkab under Kairo (though his sons follies cost him his life)
WB under BC Roy
Haryana under Bansi Lal
Ganganagar area after Raj Canal water and Kota area after Ranapratap Sagar Dam recorded big jump in agri production. Narmada water has been a big reason for agri dev in Gujarat. And, Narmada work started long time ago 9actually, under a Cong CM but sustained by CMs fo all paties).
All recorded similar progress - details will vary because of diff era/context! I recall any any firm crossing Rs 100 cr turnover was big in India just 30 yrs ago. Now, it is more global so rates, scale etc are diff. To credit him for all good things but blames others / situation / how bad Cong was etc are no go for me.
(3) Gujarat riots and ranting / utterances of Modi, Togadia, Singhal, Sudershan turned a large section of Hindu off and drove them away from BJP, perhaps for a long time. That trend continues with mishaps by BJP, fully helped by a hostile media (but it is futile to blame them - they do not go and indulge in thokashahi - Parivaar people do).
(4) Until BJP fixes this problem, it will continue to lose parties, allies, people, and will shed even more space / votes to an aggressive Congress!
(5) I do not think he is a prime ministerial person like ABV was; will only damage BJP outside Gujarat.
(6) You need a spoon of salt to spoil milk or a drop of poison to ruin a whole tanker of milk.

You are free to believe he is like nobody else. I do not. I have lived in Gujarat for 5 yrs and still visit frequesntly (uncle's family has lived there for 60 yrs) and seen first hand their genious even in those bleak era of of Nehruvian Socialist India! As India unshackels more, Gujarat will continue to prosper and dominate, Modi or no Modi!

How did the hooch thing happened in such efficient and efficient admin? You can buy liquor openly in Gujarat anywhere. Someone's pockets are being lined with all that excise revenue lost. Whose?
I find it amsuing that all good things are b/c of him but all bad things are - well it happens under Cong too.
I gave you example of Madhav Solanki who resigned (or forced by his party) after the A'bad riots in 1985. Shivraj Patil did (or was asked to do) after Mumbai attacks! Sanjeeva Reddy / Cehhan Reddy did after in AP after accusations (not convicted) by a commission. Ajoy Mukherjee did in WB in 1969 after th Naxalite violence. So, there are many cases; I just mentioned two prominent ones. Those who did not are Nehru (1962), Indira (1975), Advani (terror attacks), Modi (2002), Morarjee (1979 after losing majority) and many others in diff context. LBS came back as minister, later PM. If Modi had taken moral responsibilty and (really) resigned, he would have come back, but with moral authority.
I believe in the Hindu-Buddhist Theory of Karma and his deeds of 2002 (and Ahes of all those dead) will eventually catch up with him and until then, will continue to haunt them.
Finally, Jarasandha, Duryodhan, Yadav, Bali, Ravan also were wealthy! But Krishna destroyed the first three and Ram last two.
PVN's may have been a corrupt regime but he was the one who started process of reforming / unshackling Indian economy and changing direction of diplomacy, later continued by Vajpayee-led NDA. Despite many of his follies, he will be considered amongst the best PM. But, that will not never remove the taint that he was the union home minister when 3000 Sikhs were killed by Congress goons in 1984. No support for him from me despite his signal achievements!

Anonymous said...

MP: As a Hindu, I am a natural secular because my religion allows me that freedom. And, I need no certificate from anyone - least of all those who justify killings of innocent people in the name of natural, justifiable, righteous anger (the words of RSS resolution) - about my Hinduness or committment to pro-Hindu polity. But, I strongly believe, two wrongs - killings under Cong rule - do not make one right. All riots / killings of innocents under any admin - incompetent or super competent - are morally wrong and unacceptable. Look at the price Congress paid for its 1984 crime - only now it seems to be partly recovering, AFTER 25 yrs! There is no justification for killing of innocent people -of whatever religion, ethinicity, gender!

Anonymous said...

I gave examples of Sarabhai / Lalbhai / Mafatlal to reply to your claim that Sarabhai was a scientist, Arvind builds denim and Gujaratis built empire only outside Gujarat. About early 20th century, that was the point about their entreprsing skills even under the hostile British Raj. It is not about Adam/Eve.

Anonymous said...

A Majority of Gujarati voters (overwhelming? 51% should weigh more than 49%) voted against BJP in both 2007 and 2009. Just yest, Junagargh gave a thumb down to BJP. beginning of the bubble burst.

mpanj said...

The following link is an article by Swaminathan S Anklesaria Aiyar (another hindutva Facist).

Given your single point ‘hate Modi’ agenda you may be tempted to argue that I may have commissioned it. No I haven’t – I don’t have your lakhs (sorry couldn’t resist that one).

It was only published on the 21st of July, 2009 – how timely.

Read it carefully, very, very carefully.

I’m going to ask Swapanda if I can cut and paste it in subsequent posting.

This article answers the question – Why NaMo? You can wallow in your delusion and keep disputing the facts laid out by independent economists/publications such as Bibek Debroy, Aiyar, India Today, etc. or you can admit the simple fact that NaMo is the answer.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Swaminathan-S-A-Aiyar/Agriculture-Secret-of-Modis-success-/articleshow/4805278.cms

I thought I would let it drop but I have to set your arguments right.

‘Congress paid for 1984’. Now you have really lost it. They never did. Jagdish Tytler and Sajjan Kumar were nominated as late as this LS election. H K L Bhagat died an old man (of natural causes)

Congress was defeated because of Bofors and minority appeasement.

Not because of 1984.

Sure, two wrongs don’t make one right. But when you haul a great leader like NaMo over coals and defend an incompetent Mammoni (Italian for Mama’s boy) because he is the great pseudo secular hope – we have a problem.

Then it stops being an ‘apples to apples’ comparison.

Then it is a witch hunt. And it is incumbent upon ordinary citizens like us to stand up and defend such leaders.

Every bit helps.

Gopi, please read the aforementioned article and join us in the NaMo league.

mpanj said...

Swapanda,

I'm pasting the article from Economictimes (I referenced the link in an earlier post).

Please post it if you're ok with it.

Thanks

Agriculture: Secret of Modi's success


22 Jul 2009, 0338 hrs IST, Swaminathan S Anklesaria Aiyar, ET Bureau


Print EMail Discuss Share Save Comment Text:



When Narendra Modi won the 2007 state election in Gujarat, the media focused on Hindu-Muslim issues. Some journalists highlighted rapid industrial
development that had made Gujarat India’s fastest-growing state. I mentioned Gujarat’s successful port-led development.

However, an excellent new study suggests that the secret of Modi’s success lay in agriculture, an area completely neglected by political analysts. Ashok Gulati, Tushaar Shah and Ganga Sreedhar have written an IFPRI paper, ‘Agricultural Performance in Gujarat Since 2000’, which highlights something few people know — that Gujarat’s agricultural performance is by far the best in India.

Between 2000-01 and 2007-08 agricultural value added grew at a phenomenal 9.6% per year (despite a major drought in 2002). This is more than double India’s agricultural growth rate, and much faster than Punjab’s farm growth in the green revolution heyday. Indeed, 9.6% agricultural growth is among the fastest rates recorded anywhere in the world. That drives home the magnitude of Gujarat’s performance.

Since the bulk of Gujarat’s population is still rural, this mega-boom in agriculture must have created millions of satisfied voters. Hence it must have played a major role in Modi’s victory. Yet I did not see a single media analyst mention it.

Gujarat is drought prone, with 70% of its area classified as semi-arid and arid. Although journalists focus on the Sardar Sarovar Project, its canal network is hopelessly incomplete, and currently irrigates only 0.1 million hectares. No less than 82% of irrigation in the state comes from tubewells, which have depleted groundwater. By the mid-1990s, groundwater extraction exceeded natural recharge in 31 talukas, and 90% of the safe extraction yield in another 12 talukas.

In the 1990s, the state along with grass-roots organisations embarked on decentralised water harvesting. This included the building of check dams, village tanks, and bori-bunds (built with gunny sacks stuffed with mud). During the 2007 election campaign, the Congress slogan was ‘chak de, chak de Gujarat’. I heard Modi say at a rally that his reply was “check dam, check dam Gujarat.” I did not realise at the time how significant this really was.

The IFPRI study says that 10,700 check dams were built up to 2000, and helped drought-proof 32,000 hectares. That sounds a lot. But subsequently, under Modi, Gujarat has built ten times as many check dams! He could well say ‘chak de, check dam’. These have played a big role in the agricultural growth of Saurashtra and Kutch (aided, it must be said, by bountiful monsoons in the last five years). Better water availability has also increased milk and livestock production.

Gujarat has promoted drip irrigation, badly needed to conserve water in semi-arid districts. Like other states, Gujarat offers subsidies and loans, but it also fast-tracks and simplifies procedures. Farmers contribute 5% initially. Then a state-owned company provides 50% as subsidy, and arranges a bank loan for the balance of 45%. One lakh acres have been covered by drip irrigation so far. Like the Sardar Sarovar Project, drip irrigation’s total irrigation potential is far higher.

Research shows that rural roads are the most important investment for agriculture. Gujarat has one of the best rural road networks in India, and 98.7% of villages are connected by pukka roads.

mpanj said...

Contd.

Modi’s Jyotigram scheme for power has provided regular, high-quality electricity to villages, greatly helping farming. Jyotigram provides separate electric feeders for domestic use and pump-sets. This permits the state to supply round-the-clock domestic supply, while limiting agricultural supply to eight hours a day (which is continuous and of constant voltage).

This has facilitated a switch to high-value crops like mango, banana and wheat, which need assured water. Constant voltage has protected farmers from damage to pump-sets earlier caused by fluctuating voltage. Continuous power for non-agricultural uses has spurred diversification into non-farm activities, vital for rural growth.
The irrigated area has expanded at the rate of 4.4% per year. The fastest growth in crops has been in wheat, followed by cotton and fruits and vegetables.

Private seed companies have brought in new technology for several crops, ranging from bajra to castor, but above all in Bt cotton. More than 20 Bt cotton varieties are now produced by 30 seed companies. In his election campaign, Modi waxed eloquent about Gujarat’s success in cotton.

He declared that Gujarat was now famous in China as the producer and exporter of Bt cotton, and he said this was a source of Gujarati pride. (Let me add that this is a great improvement on his earlier notion of Hindu pride, exemplified in his ‘gaurav yatra’ after Godhra).

Gujarat has only 26% of India’s cotton area, but 35.5% of its production, thanks to high yields.
Rising world prices have also helped, and been buttressed by a huge jump in the minimum, support price for cotton.

New institutional arrangements like contract farming have helped improve marketing. Gujarat’s famous dairy co-operatives (everybody loves Amul) have provided a stable basis for milk and livestock development. But the private sector is emerging as an important player too. Corporates have entered agro-exports, agro-processing, organised food retail, and rural infrastructure development.

Vimal Dairy and Vadilal Industries have entered the dairy sector. Agrocel has taken up organic farming of cotton and sesame seeds. Atreyas Agro and Godrej Agrovel plan contract cultivation of jatropha and palm oil respectively. Food retail chains like Food Bazaar, Reliance Fresh and Spencer have sprung up in Gujarat’s cities, sourcing produce from farmers directly.

The state has helped catalyse production, notably in water harvesting. It has worked with NGOs and companies to bring the best technology to farmers. Gujarat Agricultural University has been split into four separate universities, helping strengthen R&D.

Can this be replicated in other states? Much of it can. Jyotigram looks least likely to be replicated because it abandons the free-but-unreliable rural power that politicians regard as vote-winners in most states. Many states also prefer large irrigation projects to small water-harvesting ones, since bigger projects translate into bigger kickbacks. Yet Modi’s electoral success points to a new way of winning rural votes. Others should sit up and take notice.

Anonymous said...

great rebuttal panj.AM IMPRESSED BY YOUR KNOWledge, you are right about dhirubai,my uncle used to wok in textile commissioners office of GOI,and he started with rayon ployester.

any one who opposes modi is both a traitor and a idiot and on the payrollof elmedia mafia aa ndd jihadi agents like teesta.

this gopi does not even abuses.abuses are demeaned by their association with lowest lives like him.see how he dances around when he cant rebut.

he just changes topics.he is smarter than crores of gujaratis and namo fans and ratan tata and various neutral economic experts

the only ones who share his hatred for modi r the 7th century jihadis and elmfia all funded by mideast teesta funds. wow great company.

Anonymous said...

hey lowest life,looks like this rule also applies only to modi not to your jihadi supprted congress.

those 51 % voted for other parties not necesarrily against modi.

votes have always been like this in multipart india.

so by that logic everyone is a loser.28 % voted congress in loksabha elections

so 72 % dont want congress lowest life.

and modi won twice ,lets wait for 212.u can shuv your bubble burst comments up yours.

even donkeys have an opinion an dthey bray it.

Anonymous said...

hey jihadi scum,junagarh gave thumbs down so
330 constituencies gave thumps down to congress.

u r a shameless disgusting species,u apply your rules only against modi and u keep doing it stubbornly even if pointed out.

foresight standrad only for modi,not for rajiv,nehru,gandhi and congress cms and mms for terror blasts and 26-11.

hooch victims only for modi.

hey supreme ah visit the kashmiri pandits in refugee camps firts on behalf of nehru whose actions have made them extinct from their own kashmir.
due to your jihadi bros.

and u just dodge points without rebutting them
and move on to some other malicous comment against modi like a true fanatic jihadi.

and the best part is the same rule can be used against congres sa 1000 times more.

mpanj said...

Swapanda,

one last request.

If it is possible please investigate the Junagadh fiasco.

NaMo seems to be falling in the old pseudo secular trap – he may end up falling between two stools.

Minorities will not vote for BJP. Liberal media (not just Indian but globally) have created a sense of victimhood amongst muslims.

Looks like he realizes this and hence the experiment in a muncipal poll. He is testing a hypothesis – hopefully he has heard the answer loud and clear.

The next LS election is likely to be a watershed in India's electoral history.

Congress' wont change its stripes - they have already given up on reforms and extended their pseudo secularism to relations with Pakistan.

When these chickens come home to roost NaMo will be the last man standing.

The only leader with the wisdom and vision to pull India out of the collective morass of impending Jihadi and economic armegaeddon.

But to position himself thus, he must first maintain the image he has so assiduously built.

What differentiates brand Modi from the rest of India’s political firmament is his uncompromising image as a man who will stand up for what he believes in – no matter what the political consequences.

Indians have been bred on the notion of ‘Tyag’ – sacrifice.

Ramayan has engendered that in our DNA. Anyone who sacrifices is automatically assigned a place in our hearts.

NaMo has followed this path thus far. There is no need to appease the pseudo secular deities – they are, after all false gods.

As they say in sport – NaMo needs to let the match come to him. There is still a lot to be done in Gujarat. Turn it into India’s Guangzhou.

When word gets out that in the chaos that is India – one state is Shangri-la – even the NDTVs wont be able to stop the tsunami that will bring NaMo to power.

Anonymous said...

Riots are unfortunate incidents and given the state of our Police Forces, no riot could be ever controlled by them, including Godhra. Remember 40,000 policemen of Mumbai Police paralyzed in front of 10 well armed terrorists on 26/11. That is the level of preparedness, training, morale, equipment and professionalism of our Police forces, that's unfortunate but true. Imagine what would happen when 1000s of determined mob is out on the streets during riots, it's easy to pass judgements from the comforts of ones room. Our police forces have failed miserably in controlling any riot since independence resulting in perhaps lakhs of avoidable deaths. You take any incident of riot anywhere in India, it could be controlled only by Army's intervention. And when 1000s of armed policemen can't control a riot how can one person be held responsible. Some people working overtime to blame Narendra Modi for Godhra and post Godhra riots perhaps live in their own make belief world, and are certainly not aware of the real capabilities of our police forces.

The solution lies in bringing up the professionalism of our Police Forces to the level of our Army so that during crunch-time they don't fail in delivering what is expected out of them.

Anonymous said...

The Maharashtra Assembly election conundrum

Maharashtra Assembly elections are scheduled to be held sometime in October 2009. Most political pundits and newspapers have already anointed the ruling Congress-NCP Alliance as the eventual victors in the polls. Though that may turn out to be true, all is not lost for the SS-BJP combine.
Ten years of ineffective rule from the Congress-NCP combine will provide hope to the saffron combine of surmounting some self created odds.

Before analysis it is important to note the following trends from the Lok Sabha 2009 elections in the state.
• Congress I won 19 seats while NCP won 9 seats giving a combined total of 28 to the ruling alliance
• Shiv Sena won 11 seats, BJP netted 8 giving a total of 19 to the saffron alliance.
• Others won 3
Based on the above it is easy to reach a conclusion reached by the myriad of pundits. However as always, these numbers do not tell the complete story. Assembly wise lead trends suggest a much closer race than what was seen.
• Congress with 81 seats and NCP with 58 seats still lead the pack with a combined total of 139 seats
• BJP-Sena have a combined total of 128 (SS-69, BJP 59) which is just 11 less than the Congress.
• MNS which played the role of BJP-SS spoiler to perfection led in just 8 assembly segments while others led in 13 segments.
All this suggests a much closer contest than what pundits believe. To me the assembly results will be based on the following events post 2009 Lok Sabha elections
1. Effective coordination of alliances – Uddhav Thackeray scored an unnecessary self goal by playing footsie with Sharad Pawar and acting pricey with the local BJP leadership. The election coordination between the 2 partners was the highest in 1995 and that year coincidentally saw them come to power. For BJP-Sena to come anyway close to the 144 magic mark, an effective constituency level coordination is a must. Sharad Pawar will play his games as always – he wants NCP to outgun the Congress and for that he will ensure that Congress has to tackle some NCP rebels in seats.
2. MNS factor – If one assumes that 80% of all MNS votes were erstwhile BJP-Sena votes and if most of them would come back to the SS-BJP fold, the Congress –NCP combine would be staring at a certain defeat. MNS ensured victory of Congress-NCP combine in over 20 assembly segments. Plus they themselves led in 8 segments. If Raj Thackeray was with Bal and Uddhav Thackeray and MNS votes would have stayed with BJP-SS, then BJP-SS would have led in 157 segments and Congress-NCP in just 129. Congress-NCP by encouraging (and some say funding) MNS are playing the “divide and rule” policy to perfection. It is up to the traditional anti-congress voter to understand this and cast their vote accordingly. SS-BJP must go all out to highlight this fact and try and reconvert some of these voters to their side. Uddhav has predictably upped the son of the soil ante in response to MNS threat; but unless an effective campaign highlights the role of MNS in ensuring Congress-NCP victory is mounted, BJP-SS will once again remain short of its goal.
3) Lok Sabha results - It has been seen that party winning the Lok Sabha elections does better in the Assembly elections if they happen within 6 months. It is to be seen how discerning the Maharashtra voter will be - will they do a simple arithmetic that having same dispensation at state and national level is helpful for the state or reach a conclusion that having the same dispensation did not prevent them from lousy governance and leadership for the past five years. Gopinath Munde, Uddhav T need an effective media and grass roots campaign to create a momentum in their favor - If Uddhav loses this elections; challenge from Raj will only increase; if he somehow manages to win the elections - threat from Raj T could be contained and he can chart a course to regain initiative in Mumbai-Thane belt.
SRR

Oldtimer said...

Dear anonymous

>>A Majority of Gujarati voters (overwhelming? 51% should weigh more than 49%) voted against BJP in both 2007 and 2009.

Dear anonymous, by the same argument, the majority of voters in 2009 have actually voted against the Congress. The majority of voters have actually been always voting against Congress in almost every election since Independence, even during Nehru's time.

Here's some food for thought for you. Let's say 50% of voters voted for Modi in Guj elections the last seven years. The commie-evangelical-Islamist argument is that "minorities" don't vote for him. Assume that the minority vote in Guj is at 15%. Do some math, and you'll see that approx 60% of Hindus (ie, majority) voted for him.

In other words, the Hindus of Gujarat don't need you to get on the high horse and deliver lectures on why killing innocents is bad. They know that if they should elect Congress or Left, killings will result a la Kashmir exodus, Deslhi massacre or the Nandigram genocide. They also know that if killings should happen under Congress or Left regime, there will be NO justice for vicitms, because Congress/Left drum-beaters like you, the media and others will do their best to push the crimes under the carpet, if not justify them outright by inventing a "BJP" rootcause for them all. Note that this is precisely what has happened in the case of Sikh killings and Nandigram killings. Not a single person brought to book. There is absolutely no disucssion about these genocides on public forums. Why are they forgotten? Why has not a single person been convicted for the murder of 3000 Sikhs? For the forced exile of 300000 Kashmrirs? For the rape of innocent women by red-shirt-wearing thugs in the rice fields of Bengal? Why is nobody even asking these questions? I will tell you why: precisely because phony secularist drama-artists like you are ever available to stage some impressive breast-beating on Gujarat at a moment's notice, while wilfully turning a blind eye -- and in some cases justifying -- the killing of innocents perpetrated by Congress/ Left regimes. Nice diversionary trick.

There's actually a great advanatge to electing a BJP government. If bad things should happen in a BJP government, everybody, Rajdeep Sardesai and his mother-in-law will be out to get the BJP. But supposing leftwing killers or Congress governments do something bad? People like you will crawl back into a hole hidden underneath a bush, not to be seen. A BJP government is watched and monitored. Good for democracy. Good for people. As 1984 and Nadigram celarly show, Cong/Left are purposefully allowed to get away, not only by supporters like you, but by the so-called "fourth estate" as well.

You have been justifying 1984 killings cliaming that Congress paid a price for it. Come again please? What price did Congress pay? Which Congressman was sent to the gallows? Why is MMS, who tried to pin the blame for killing Sikhs on RSS like every other 2-bit Hindu-baiter out there, still the PM of this country? It is pretty obvious that when it comes to Congress (and perhaps Left), your bar is purposefully very very low. Who are you trying to fool? Does the killing of 3000 people mean nothing for you?

In summary: it is YOU my friend who needs to TRULY understand that killing innocent people is repugnant and wrong. Despite all that energetic bs'ing you've been staging here, I don't think you really grasp the moral/ethical/humane dimension to the misery of targeting non-combatants. The first thing you ought to do is stop shedding crocodile tears and start truly _feeling_. Walk around the shanty towns of Jammu sometime where refugees live. No fault of theirs. Actually your lectures are ok quite overall in content; they will pass the test in any high-school essay writing competition; you just need to stand in front of a mirror and deliver them with real passion that's all.

Anonymous said...

Just read that Murli Manohar Joshi is the RSS candidate for BJP President post. God save the party.

Arjun said...

Wow.. from a benign discussion on 377 to middle India to michael Jackson to finally Namo!! Hooch is strong stuff

Anonymous said...

I did not justify Cong riots in 1984. I don't know how old you were then but I was in Delhi on Nov 2. What I saw just from airport to Nehru Place, I will never forget (I worked at IFFCO, Kalol). So there is no way I will justify those killings or any kind of innocent killings by anyone.
About crocodile tears, I do not know what you have done for Kashmiri Hinuds but I have done my small bit - a close friend is a Kashimiri Hindu and his father is deeply involved in refugee casue.
You can ask Mr Tarun Vijay how much a person named Gopi from Rajasthan had supported Panchjanya fund raising for Kargil, Bhuj, Orissa, tribal IIT and any other activities. Or Voice of India. Or K Elst. If someone like me (and few other friends) who have been supportive of RSS vanvasi work, K Elst, Voice of India, Arun Shourie's book on conversion, etc on a large scale will be jehadis, then there will not be too many in India to support a pro-Hindu polity. The book on Ayodhya edited by Swapan was funded by me (ask VoI).
I do not like to talk abt these things but you guys have called us agent of ISI, jehadis, accused of crocodile tears etc. I have been supporting BJS-VKP before perhaps you were even born (since 1969).
Please kindly stop this name calling or questioning other's credentials/integrity. I have my views on Godhra / riots in Gujarat and their impact of BJP! I may be right, I may be wrong about my views but that does make not make life-long supporters of BJS-BJP jehadi or ISI agent. You hold views contrary to mine but I don't accuse you of sinister things for that.
Thank you. Good-bye. God bless you all.

Sanjay said...

On a vacation Swapanda?? Hope everything's fine.

Anonymous said...

Swaminathan also said this:
.. was a source of Gujarati pride. (Let me add that this is a great improvement on his earlier notion of Hindu pride, exemplified in his ‘gaurav yatra’ after Godhra).

mpanj said...

Lets hope MMJ is not made the President of BJP.

Mohan Bhagwat seems too smart and wise to do something as crazy as bringing back MMJ.

Unless this further feeds the consipiracy theory of RSS actually wanting to kill the BJP so that it can create a new political entity using the remnants of that catharsis.

Anonymous said...

Oldtimer, Why do you keep bringing sins of Cong? We are concerned here about the cauases as to why BJP lost in 2004 and then again in 2009 to a lousy UPA I govt! I have said many times I have never voted for or even supported Cong / Nehrus so all this is neither here nor there (about Cong sins)! You can write another Mahabharat-size book on that but that will NOT solve BJP's problems / issues facing BJP. You can believe Modi is solution to their problems, he is like nobody else since Shivaji, etc; I do not agree with that not with fictions such as that Cong mostly got Muslim votes. Yes, Congress did not get a majority or landslide (I have written letetrs to FT, WSJ, Economist on that issue - that UPA did not even get a simple majority, forget about landslide) but BJP certainly lost 2009. That is the key issue. Talking about Congress sins will not solve any of BJP's problems. In fact, one of reasons they lost was its smug belief that people will throw a lousy UPA govt out and vote BJP in. Well, for whatever reasons (again a matter of opinion), Indian voters decided to behave otherwise. You can call us ISI agents, jehadis, swines, pigs and whatever else is there in your demonolgy, but that is not going to solve BJP's problems. If abuse can win elections, Togadia will be PM of India!

Oldtimer said...

>>We are concerned here about the cauases as to why BJP lost in 2004

Why of course, I much regret that you're concerned, but I am not that concerned. You see, If I want to know why BJP lost, I'd get an opinion from credible, sane people; not those who at short notice drum up a little chest-beating tear-jerker sermon-delivering act involving Gujarat, Ayodhya and other vintage whines. And, having done which, (and gotten cornered about their justification of Nandigram and other killings), wail about how they fell victim to heartless name-calling machinations of their brutal opponents.

Kindly stop this charade. You can't really help your favorite party, BJP, win elections this way. They sure deserve thinking supporters.

>>but BJP certainly lost 2009. That is the key issue.

Perhaps you'd also like to announce that Manomhan Singh is the prime minister of India, not Tony Blair; and that Medha Patkar likes to appear on Fashion TV, not God channel.

Actually, let me correct you: the BJP did not merely lose an election. It received a kick in the teeth. The only mild consolation for apolitical, non-partisan voters like me is that the commies got a bigger kick in the groin. Ubersecularist and a favorite politician of shrieking scamsters like Comrade Mobile Republic Roy has bitten dust too (but still is in the government, irony). I guess you readily agree with the "kick in the teeth" part, do let me know if you need help understanding the "kick in the groin" angle.

Having read Arun Shourie (hint: sane and credible), I've come to the conclusion that it was _good_ that the BJP lost. The defeat can only do the party some good. Now, if only the other losers -- commies most importantly -- did some honest analysis of _their_ defeats, it will do the people of India some good! What say, friend? Don't you think it's better to do some introspection than be an ISI agent? Or are you just fine and comfy being a jihadi?

mpanj said...

Gopi,

U r confusing Modi with BJP.

BJP lost because it took its core constituency (i.e. us), for granted.

Every pre-election was ‘mandir wahi banayenge’ – post election – Coalition dharma.

You cant fool all the people all the time.

But when you cut through the clutter and media bias you will find that Modi has the answers.

No other leader - BJP or otherwise, combines the qualities Modi has demonstrated.

No other leader has been tried and test like NaMo.

His actions have been scrutinized and analyzed at every juncture and the only ‘flaws’ they can find – arrogant, uncompromising, not a team player, etc. – are in short Bull Sh..

Trust me I share your anguish and disdain for present day BJP leadership. They have turned into a cheaper version of Congress. But there again, the one exception is NaMo.

BJP lost this election – Congress did not win it. You’re correct.

But we cant lay the blame at Modi’s doorstep.

Lets flip this argument. Lets say for a minute that NaMo is politically neutralized. Then what.

Sushmaji as some have suggested. Arun Jaitley?

If NaMo cant prove himself with such a sterling record, what will these leaders stand on. Their debating abilities?

The media (and sadly our fellow countrymen) have two different sets of standards – one for the Nehru/Gandhi parivar and one for the rest of us.

BJP is playing with a 8 man team against a 14 man opposition.

To win we need to use the tactics Modi has deployed over and over again.

From Politics of Patronage to Politics of Performance.

p.s. as much as you get on our nerves, please don’t give up. Your insights (misplaced or contrary to ours) are important if BJP is to be lifted from this quagmire.

There is a reason why Swapanda is putting up with this long meandering dialogue. He is providing us laymen (and women) a platform to share our views.

M. Patil said...

Anonymous at July 23, 2009 8:50 PM said:

"Talking about Congress sins will not solve any of BJP's problems"

Actually it does, it is the job of opposition to put govt feet to fire. Not talking about Congress sins and harping about percieved omissions of BJP will create a perception of 'communal BJP'. No surprise Congress supporters don't want any discussion about Congress sellout out of National interests.

Widely disseminated facts about communal and divisive Congress would greatly help the BJPs image problem.

Is it any surprise that Anonymous/Gopi keep harping about Modi while Indian intersts are literally and figuratively burning?

M.Patil

Anonymous said...

What's up with Yashwant Sinha? This guy is so freaking immature. Does he want to join the Congress or what? With this kind of childish behavior, what future is there for him in the party. He should know that nobody is indispensable, does not matter whether you were a FM for five years or not.

Anonymous said...

HC refuses to bar SIT questioning
Noose tightening around Murder Chief

Anonymous said...

On a vacation Swapanda?? Hope everything's fine
-------------------------------
Not on a vacation bhaiyya these days Bengali Babu is writing on a new blog. Don't know the exact reason why he stopped updating this blog and suddenly start the new blog without informing us. But my guess is constant bulling, childish fights, some pathetic comments, commercial reasons -- I mean less hope of getting ads on his blogs etc perhaps forced him to call it a day.

Sudhir said...

M.Patil,

You have written exactly what I was thinking. But one thing we must agree upon is that these lackeys of congress have done a commendable job of diverting the public attention from the failures of the UPA. See some current instances -
1) Sharm-el-Sheik incident. I have read some editorials (B.G.Verghese and Hindu) where they blame BJP for opposing the joint statement.
2) End-User Monitoring agreement - Why we are not talking about this
3) G8 statement where without the NPT some of the nuclear re-processing equipment will not be covered under the nuclear deal. So what MMS said during the vote is not true.
In the near past -
4) See how these lackeys and pinko brigade was able to absolve the blame of 26/11 on the government by saying that all politicians are to be blamed.

Why go so far - Look at the blog in question. The topic of the blog is article 377 and we are not very sure of what government stand is and we are not even discussing this. Some syncophant of the Congress comes along and hijacks the entire discussion saying the same old rhetorics of "Modi is a Mass Murderer" etc. And I see a trend in all these people. They will never reply to your posts. When you expose their lies they will simply crawl into the woodwork and emerge later with a new lie.


I am unable to gauge who is doing more damage to the BJP -Lackeys who are openly against BJP or the ones masquerading as well-wishers (by saying -we have donated to the party, we have donated to panchajanya VKA etc) and then distorting facts.

Deshabhakta said...

Swapan Da, kya hua? aap to chup ho gaye! duniya mein itna kuch hua aur ho raha hai, but you seem to be not able to find time for blogging :(

Anonymous said...

no ugly hindus like muthalik,varun,modi,togadia,to blame for the tranqulity of the nigerian paradise ebing disturbed by gorgeous muslims

MAIDUGURI, Nigeria (Reuters) – Muslim rebels on Monday expanded their attack on Nigerian security forces to three northern states, with at least 80 people dead in two days of clashes, security sources said.

Gun battles between police and members of a local Islamic group, which wants a wider adoption of Islamic law across Nigeria, were reported in Yobe, Kano and Borno states.

The attacks came a day after more than 50 people were killed in neighboring Bauchi state. The violence was not connected to unrest in the oil-producing Niger Delta in the south.

The four northern states are among the 12 of Nigeria's 36 states that started a stricter enforcement of sharia in 2000 -- a decision that has alienated sizeable Christian minorities and sparked bouts of sectarian violence that killed thousands.

A senior member of the rebel group Boko Haram, which opposes Western education and demands the adoption of sharia law in all of Nigeria, threatened further attacks.

"We do not believe in Western education. It corrupts our ideas and beliefs. That is why we are standing up to defend our religion," Abdulmuni Ibrahim Mohammed told Reuters after his arrest in Kano state.

"Even if I'm arrested, there are more out there to do the job."

The government estimates 55 have been killed in the two days of fighting, but estimates from security sources and residents add up to at least 80.

President Umaru Yar'Adua ordered heightened security in the affected regions and directed police to take all necessary action to contain and repel the militants.

More than 200 ethnic groups generally live peacefully side by side in the West African country, although civil war left 1 million people dead between 1967 and 1970 and there have been bouts of religious unrest since then.

CLASHES SPREAD

Members of the Boko Haram set several churches, a police station and a prison ablaze in Maiduguri, the state capital of Borno, residents said.

A Reuters reporter said he saw at least 20 bodies laid out on the street as his family was evacuating among hundreds of others. Gunshots and explosions could be heard throughout the city.

"The (militants) are right now moving into town. Riot police and soldiers are everywhere, but the boys are not afraid of them," said Gana Marari, another resident of Maiduguri.

In northern Yobe and Kano states, clashes between rebels and security forces killed at least four and injured 10. A Kano police spokesman said officers had arrested more than 100 gunmen.

Boko Haram, which means "education illegal," began its string of attacks in the northeastern city of Bauchi on Sunday after the arrest of some of its members.

More than 50 Nigerians were killed and more than 100 arrested in those clashes, prompting the Bauchi state governor to impose a night-time curfew on the state capital city. There were no reports of violence in Bauchi on Monday.

Anonymous said...

yashwant sinha is a pretty hinudu.Anyone who gets footage on elmafia like ndtv is a pretty hindu because he helps their jihadi isi arabian teesta funded oh so secular agenda and they become richer by helping hindu haters in india and abroad.

traitors like sinha sell themselves for tv footage of themselves.cheapskates.

even jaichand had more value.

our own GOPI is trying for a job with the mafia.

he is amply qualified with the posting here
that he does.THat is his bio vita.

if he is not already paid for his treason.
these guys willl sell india and themsleves so cheap.

Anonymous said...

patil,negative campaigning of its opponent, is a duty of all opponents.

in the usa tv negative campaigning is done in all elections and is not only a duty but also effective.

but india any thing can happen.with these jihadi mafia traitors called seculars who will play the political game with heads u lose,tails i win rule.

GOPI is probably that anonymous.he is shameless
and should het his blood checked for islamic dna.
muslims are known to produce jihadi secular hindu nmaed hindu hating people traitors like him
after consorting with hindu women.

so blinkered and focused are they by their hindu hating jiahd,they forget even equal rules that even a kid knows apply to game.

so congress sins shuld be ignored,only bjp so called sins shuld be targeted.

no country has such traitors idiots pretentious shameless scum,only in india disguised as seculars.

this hindu secular breeed would have been prosecuted in any country but here osma does not neeed to fight,gopis will help him by distrcating,sedating and tripping hindus if they decied to defend themselves for justice.

if these r hindus i do not want any of this hinduism which produces such lowest life traitors a dime a dozen disguised a sseculars.

only india has this oxymoron called jihadi secularism,which means passing shahnano,using osama look alikes,sc judges apologizing for bias
because of growing muslim jiahdi presnece in votebank.

people like gopi would havew been hanged in any civil country,but only in hindu dhimmi majority india can such bizarre nonsense can happen.

the idiots dont even know how to partition the country.india is the only country divided on religion and yet these shameless scum talk of secularism after surrendering 40 % land to islam,some sularism that in kashmir,pak,bdesh.

and when there is a braveherat modi,they want to lynch him hook or crook.

christians fought islam in 732 from conqueing europe.

but hinduus are eunuchs and worse produce traitors like gopi after their women have been u know what.

Anonymous said...

arjun,stick to your level man.

u guys shuld check yoyr bottom ranked high school marks.

so is there a rule that only 377 boring stuff shuld be discussed just because the blog is on that.

idiot,namo is more interesting so let them discuss it.

go write a novel or do a cartoon or whatever.maybe someday u will impress the hindu haters overseas like roy and arun will become as much antinational as arundhati the genius with
bottom ranked high school marks.

u hav epotential.

all style,but no brains.english literacy
in this elitist country with your feudal-elitist minset makes u hallucinate that u r educated and worse intelligence.

keep hallucinating like arundhati.the chinese 1 billion of them and indians another billion
would beat u on any laguage neutral iq test.

Anonymous said...

great analysis of maha elections anonymous.

now that is a substance post with superb analytical skills and factual data as a foundation.

now compare with traitor idiots like arun,arvind,gopi,balaji who all are the kind
of mofos that will be empolyed by the english media-mafia

hidnu bad,muslim good,
gay sex needs a recruitment drive.

pakistanis r people like us even if we were partitoined and have communal riots in thousnads since 47.

congress good,bjp bad,

hedas congress muslims win,tails bjp-hindus lose.

now evn a kinder garten kid is brainier and fairer than that.

even an idiot understands that all rules are the same.

so congress sins no problem,60 yr misrule no roblem,

bjp opposition is the problem.

even akid will fire a player from his neighbourhood team for bad performance.

these crazies r traitors too,shuld be eliminated like vermin if not imprisoned for treason.

the ranchi mental househas superior people and we
imprison them.

and let these scum bray pretntiously.

barkha,roy,arundhati,rajdeepnsagarikaka,vir,sheikar gupta,etc etc
egs here gopi,balaji,arun arvind

.

Anonymous said...

Actually want to correct some figures quoted in my earlier post on Maha elections
In Lok Sabha 2009 Congress won 18 seats and NCP won 7 giving them a total of 25 (erroneously stated as CI-19 NCP 9 in my earlier post); BJP won 9 and SS 11 (BJPs tally was mistakenly stated as 8) thereby giving 20 seats to the saffron combine. Also the correct assembly wise trends are
CI - 80; NCP - 52: Total 132
BJP-62; SS-61: Total 123
MNS: 8
Others (dominated by independents): 25

Despite these corrections - the overall conclusion and analysis in the earlier post stands.
SRR

Anonymous said...

Where is Swapan Dasgupta?

Swapan Dasgupta said...

YES, I AM ON HOLIDAY IN A REMOTE, QUITE INACCESSIBLE PART OF THE NORTHERN HEMISPHERE. I HAVE LOVED THE CONSPIRACY THEORIES ARISING FROM MY LONG SILENCE.

WILL GET BACK TO BLOGGING IN MID-AUGUST.

Anonymous said...

Guys he is in Delhi only! Delhi IS in Northern Hemisphere, and some parts of it are quite inaccessible due to recent rainfall. Enjoy Swapanda!

Anonymous said...

dear sd
hope you are fine.for gujaratis corruption is always aprime issue,as people want value for money paid as taxes.recently i was in ahmedabad and other 3 towns of gujarat.people image about namo is changing,which may cost namo dearly in coming elections.they feel namo is not serious about corruption,where gujaratis feel betrayed.proactive namo was fully aware of illegal trasactions of hooch business but deliberately overlooked,created a crisis and after deaths of many showing crisis management.there are plenty of food inspectors in state eating haptas at the cost of public health,whereas in most larris, small restaurant,unhealthy water,dirty hands,unhealthy stuffs are used,people are frequently sick,hospitals are crowded,health min.,waiting for crisis to happen and then manage!no idea about new genration aspiration about health and hy gine!these may result in vote for change.

Anonymous said...

He said in his Sun column he was in England.

BJP_supporter said...

I saw Yashwant Sinha on times now, and Jaitley on cnn-ibn, yesterday on the pakistan joint statement issue. They were shadow boxing - sinha with a committed journalist whose name i dont know, and jaitley with somebody from pakistan. The congress will let this play out for a while, and then come out with the series of 'your man rode a bus to pakistan when they were building bunkers in kargil, your men rolled out the red carpet for the man who did kargil, and your man went to pakistan and said jinnah secular'.

there are issues like the spectrum licensing (they could have picked this to march to president, atleast the 9 MPs of ADMK would march along). Or the BBC reporter's story on local help and total refusal from the prosecution and home ministry to even ack that angle. or the sudden spurt in toor dal - went up 50% in a week in some places.

Give it to the BJP - they show in innovative ways why they are such losers.

mpanj said...

@Anon - July29.

You are right in a sense.

Namo will need to raise his game. He has raised expectations.

Moreover, the next battle will be fought in urban areas - Indian electorate is increasingly urban. With delimitation there will be a need to address the needs of the urban poor.

He needs to clean up Gujarat's cities. Bring in private capital to eliminate slums and bring more facilities to cities and townships.

Other than a few pockets most of urban india is a large garbage dump. Not because we lack the capital - we lack the political will to administer the bitter medicine.

NaMo knows how to get this done. Start with 3-5 cities and see where it goes. If only one task - garbage collection and disposal is handled with NaMo's usual efficiency, Gujarat's cities will shine - create employment, reduce disease and increase quality of life.

Anonymous said...

England?! Not sure if he's into Cricket, but i'll look out for him in the Ashes telecast.
Lucky for him the Conservatives are owning the by-elections there.

mpanj said...

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_polls-vault-public-over-biz-in-cm-s-game-plan_1279117

This is the sign of a great leader.

NaMo is a political sponge. Amazing reaction time.

Along with this turn in emphasis, he has also decided to spend a day (each month) in a different district to locally address problems.

He will make the trips unannounced to keep local officials on their toes.

More proof (if any were needed) this is the leader India awaits.

Is this true said...

There is a starkling revelation (in the media circles) that it was not the congress party but a top leader in the BJP who was behind the planting of anti-Modi news item in the media, post elections. The news item carried an analysis which said that BJP lost most of the constituencies where Modi campaigned.

The worser news is that the needle of suspision points to a senior leader who was in the chorus of Modi for PM.

Only Swapan can confirm whether the theory in media cirlces is true.

Swapan Dasgupta said...

Re: Is this true.

I have no idea whether or not this refers to Arun Shourie

mpanj said...

Swapanda,

could also be Arun Jaitley - there were 3 leaders who supported 'Modi for PM' after Shourieji first proposed it.

Arun Jaitley
Yashwant Sinha
Ravi Shankar Prasad

Having said that - I'm not sure we can trust this media report. I could be anyone from the Rajnath/Sushma camps. Or the media could be playing this up - as they did with the ABV Vs. LKA controversy. A weakened Modi pleases everyone.

One last note - the parallels between NaMo and Shivaji are startling. Even Shivaji had to first deal with fellow maratha sardars before taking on the Adilshahs and Aurangzebs.

Interesting....

mpanj said...

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Modis-Surya-namaskar-on-Indo-Pak-border/articleshow/4858361.cms

Again NaMo is way ahead of the game. Imagine the largest Solar power generation facility opening in Kutch in 2011-2012, with Bill Clinton doing the honors.

Wonder how our own brown sahibs would react to it - almost seems like NaMo can only gain support from our 'ever subservient' ELM when the white man certifies his management prowess.

Sad.

BTW, that 5000 MW facility (which would be largest in the world) will do more for global warming than those Paucharis and Gores have done.

Nobel for NaMo – not an outlandish idea :-)

socal said...

The chest thumping over 377 has subsided with the Christian veto shutting up the Congress leaders. The alacrity with which it has been shelved under carpet is stunning. The media really knows which way the power blows. In secular India, to be a minority is glorious.

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