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Friday, August 14, 2009

Guided democracy

What is happening to the BJP in Rajasthan is truly astonishing. As of now I am seeing TV images of some 56 of the 79 MLAs assembled outside LK Advani's residence demanding an audience. Earlier they met national president RN Singh to protest at the unilateral decision by a cabal to remove Vasundhara Raje as the Leader of Opposition. Raje, it is being said, is being made to pay for the BJP's rout in Rajasthan in the Lok Sabha poll when it secured just 4 of the 25 seats.

I gather that RN Singh was livid with the MLAs. He said that only 3 or 4 of them should have come to Delhi.

He is being disingenuous. His political adviser was the one who first announced the decision to sack Raje as LoP to media at a "source-based" briefing. The RNS group has tried to make out that the whole party is exasperated with Raje's style.

If that is the case, why are an overwhelming majority of MLAs supporting Raje?

Of course Raje is imperious and is prone to flights of whimsy. But she is the only mass leader the BJP has since Bhairon Singh Shekhawat. The others--particularly those who flaunt their RSS links--are by contrast absolute pygmies. Most of them don't have the courage to contest from the same constituency twice.

The Rajasthan episode brings out some of the problems that have gripped the party:

  • The process of post-defeat recrimination is woefully selective. Raje may be held guilty for losing Rajasthan narrowly in December 2008 but she can't be held responsible for the parliamentary defeat. By that logic, RNS and LKA are the ones who should be sacked first.
  • Factionalism in the BJP is being spread by those who perceive themselves as being close to the RSS. This is the experience of both Uttarakhand and Rajasthan. In both cases, the disruptionists and saboteurs are the ones who the central leadership wants to reward.
  • The prevalence of democracy in the BJP seems as tenuous as that which prevails in the Congress. How can the central leadership decide in Delhi to change a state leader without consulting MLAs. The unilateral change in Uttarakhand set a very bad precedent.

If this is the state of the present leadership, can we expect anything worthwhile to emerge from the truncated chintan baithak in Shimla next week?

PS:

Not directly related but not unrelated either, please have a look at a long-ish essay I wrote for Eternal India of August 2009. Since this journal is not on the web, have a look at the article "Politics beyond Hindutva"



119 comments:

Anonymous said...

Your back!!!

Nikhil said...

But Swapan, is it not a matter of record that she neglected the rest of Rajasthan to concentrate on her son's constituency. This is not about fixing accountability for a poor performance. This is about putting self above party, almost willfully sabotaging the party's chances of a govt in Delhi. Its no secret that she is miffed with the Delhi cabal of the BJP, and with BS Shekawat. That still doesn't justify her not campaigning effectively for the party.

I completely disagree with your hypothesis that we should stick with Raje "because we have no other mass leader in Rajasthan". That is the problem we perpetually face in the BJP. We went with the 80 year old political dead weight of V K Malhotra in Delhi - "because we had no one else". I am a great great supporter of Advaniji, but we went with him in the general elections this year largely "becauuse we have no other mass leader in the country". Likewise, I'm sure u will advocate going with Raje for the next Rajasthan elections too.

I have nothing against Raje. I think she did a fair job as CM. The Gujjar-Meena fighting killed us in the Rajasthan elections last year.

But we have 4.5 years till the next Rajasthan elections. Isn't that enough to "make" another mass leader in the state? I know nothing of Rajasthan politics, but surely there are some other competent, fluent and charismatic BJP politicians in the state, who can be backed to lead the party in the state. Why do we always have to have only a single "mass" leader in each state, and only 1 "mass" leader nationally? Whats wrong with promoting a number of "mass" leaders? Think about it, in all states we have at best 1 mass leader.

Now you will argue that they would fight for the leadership amongst themselves. People who would sabotage the party for their own political growth have no place in our party and should be shown the door.

Likewise, at the national level. We have no mass leader after Advaniji. Only person who comes close is Narendra Modi, a person I am a big fan of. But why cant we have 10 mass leaders nationally? No BJP man has ever been allowed to rise past his/her state boundaries for the last 2 decades. The closest we come to having well known leaders around the country are those who appear as the unprepared spokespersons on NDTV and all. BJP functions like the old story of crabs in a hole - each one pulls the other down. (continued)

Nikhil said...

(continued)
Remember that most leaders in other mature democracies become "national" leaders only when the party backs them to do so. Obama was a total unknown as late as 2006. In england, people become national leaders after they are elected Parliamentary Party leader in the House. Apart from the family name, Bush wasn't involved in politics till 1994 and became President in 2000.

Take Rahul Gandhi. Now a Gandhi becomes a national leader without even joining politics. Priyanka for e.g. can be considered a national leader for the congress though she says she is not a politician. Now Rahul joined politics in 2004. But since then he has the absolute backing of the party. He has toured the entire country and is hence a "national" leader. Its a different matter that not a single non-Gandhi is a national leader for the Congress.

Cant we take a good idea there? cant we promote large number of national leaders? Rajnath, Modi, Sushma, Naqvi, Jaitley (if he is interested, i doubt it), SS Chauhan, Yeddy, Naidu etc etc etc - can all campaign around the country, address rallies and raise their individual profiles and that of the party. We are actually fortunate to have the RSS as the minder to ensure personal egos dont get in the way. I think all of them can be made to work together to work for the betterment of the party, work in tandem, atleast by the RSS if not the party itself. But they can all become national leaders. And if one of them is chosen to lead the party in 2014, all of the others can and should unanimously and unequivocally stand behind that person, again with RSS help if necessary. So we will have a large number of national leaders to help out the party. This election, we had essentially 2 national campgineres - Advani and Modi. That is a sad situation for a democratic party like ours.

For example, in any upcoming state elections. I would like to see all above people campaigning, including those with no links to that state. It doesn't matter if no one comes to hear them - thats the job of the local BJP bigwigs to ensure an audience. But these are all well qualified, respected BJP leaders. I see no reason they cannot all go national.

To summarise a long comment - we have to get out of the "only 1 leader" mentality. The Vajpayee Advani duo worked in perfect tandem for decades despite both being national leaders in their own right, despite a media constantly trying to find a wedge between them. This was largely because both realized that party is more important that self, Advani most importantly. I see no reason why this cant be replicated for all 2nd rung leaders of the party.

Balaji said...

There is no democracy at any level in the BJP. Just one big RSS mafia which rules everything.

Moderates like Khanduri and Sinha have be taken care of. Even a hawk like Shourie has been punished becos he is 'not one of them'. Now they are moving in on Raje. I think the RSS cabal will also go back to topple Sushil Modi project at some point.

RSS, its poodle Rajnath (RN Singh?!) and the 'reformed' bootlicker Advani are out to destroy the moderates. Its high time the moderates unite under the leadership of Sushma Swaraj and ditch the BJP to form a new rightwing party with support from Nitish and Naveen Patnaik.

Anonymous said...

Mr Advani and BJP remind one of what happened in 70's in Congress. But, Advani is no Indira Gandhi either by temperament or mass base. The RSS lobby never allowed Raje to rule freely. Actually, they - and many from old guards like Bhairo Singh who can not accept the reality of new leader - ensured loss of at least 20 seats in Assembly elections. Advani will take BJP back to where he stareted the upward journey. And, they have as much contempt for BJP supporters / workers as Nehru-Gandhis have for their party's! Hopless situation for BJP until he is sent to retirement.

Rambhakt said...

Swapanda,
I am appalled by the sidelining of people like Arun Shourie. When will this end?

Sundararaman said...

Advani has been reduced to being a factional leader. It is high time he relinquished his organisational responsibilities and remained a patriarch sort of figure for BJP without any organisational responsibility. The RNS group is bent on reducing BJP across India to the level to which they have taken BJP in UP.

Anonymous said...

Has anyone noticed one thing in last 5 yrs? If and when Congress / UPA is on ropes, some part of Sangh Parivaar will come forward with something and move aside their shenanigans from headlines and instead people get to see intra-parivaar wars or something else. Our anti-Sangh media can then conveniently go to town with later news and completely black out the former one. But, why blame ELS when the rot is within? Now, soon headlines will be Raje, Shimla or other trivial issue - thus redeeming Sonia-Singh from their Sharam folly. Go thru last 5+ years and that is the pattern you will note. Whose side these people really are?

Straight Talk said...

Quoting Swapan from the article: Yesterday no more

"The BJP’s present incoherence is a consequence of two factors. First, the party was in a state of disorientation between
Advani’s post-Pakistan downfall and his formal rehabilitation in December 2007. No worthwhile debates and policy initiatives
were undertaken in this period, not least because those at the helm were unequal to the task. Second, the period also witnessed
the intrusive over-involvement of the RSS in the BJP. The “micro-management” coincided with the RSS’s own loss of direction
and its inability to cope with the challenges of an assertive, globalised India. In a macabre display of what old-style communists
used to decry as “voluntarism”, the RSS tried to equate the certitudes of its full-timers with the mood in the outside world. In
Uttar Pradesh, where the pracharaks conducted the 2007 campaign, the BJP was decimated; in Gujarat, where Modi chose to
ignore them, it won a famous victory. In Madhya Pradesh the RSS runs the government; in Rajasthan it is at odds with the chief
minister."

This article was written by Swapan before the 4 state assembly elections in 2008. Jaitley's team ran the campaign for Rajasthan and RSS ran the campaign for MP. We all know the results! On the assembly election results we can argue that politics and elections are little more than good governance.

The best solution is the Jaitley camp setting terms with the RSS. There is a lot of common ground between the Jaitley camp and the RSS particularly in the area of Probity. Jaitley camp definitely a case for decision making in Delhi than in Nagpur. With a person like Bhagwat at the helm of RSS, he should pay heed to the argument.

If the RSS in MP and Ananth Kumar could together in the elections why can't the Jaitley camp. Come December it appears J camp is more comfortable with a president like Ananth Kumar than Naidu.


PS: For people who had apprehension about Jaitley, Raje relations (Relations hit a low after the Assembly election results, which led to the appointment of Mittal as Prabhari in LS elections thanks to Raje switching camps) this blog is a solace. This blog is more reflective of J's support to Raje. It good to see the evil in the BJP left lonely.

Straight Talk said...

Hope Swapan in the sidelines of his vacation to UK met David Cameron. He could now carry some tips for the conservatives here.

Kanchan Gupta said...

Oh come on. Rajnath would not have done it without Advani's approval/support if not active collusion. And the cabal is not only limited to Rajnath and his 'adviser'. If this is unilateral action by Rajnath, why are Advani and his 'advisers' silent? The BJP is like the Augean stables. You want to clean it up, go with a broom and clean out the whole lot. Or else don't do anything.

Ajay said...

Spot on. Any questions on leadership should be settled through secret ballot as was done in Bihar. RNS is trying to make a Congress out of BJP with the "high-command" culture

Anonymous said...

Another tid bit! Sukhbir Singh Badal was sworn second time as the Dy CM of Punjab with full approval of RNS despite the better claim and indispensability of state BJP to Punjab government, the central leadership including LKA, RNS and AJ are killing their own party to support nepotism of Badal clan in fond hope that Badal clan would support them as leaders of joint NDA. Shame on Rajnath and Advani may you treacherous fools never ever get even within 10 feet of PM chair till your last living breath for he perfidy shown by you. AJ, LKA and RNS are Quislings of Punjab BJP.

doubtinggaurav said...

Swapan Da,

First welcome back.

Coming to the post, the pertinent question is. Is it time to put a stake through BJP.

Arun said...

The current 'Single Hindu Party System' ignores the plurality of Hindu society and the plurality of our nation. It is time for the Sangh to consider starting its own in-house Left-of-Center party instead of having to rely on unreliable partners like JD(U), BJD and TDP.

So, what is the way out?

A new Left-of-Center party, overseen by the Sangh, to complement BJP.

New party to be initially confined to states where BJP is absent (Kerala, TN, AP, Orissa and WB - total 164 seats in Lok Sabha)

BJP to co-exist in these states, but as a junior partner.

Emphasis on Swadeshi economics and sustainable living; occupy part of the Leftist space.

De-emphasis on Article 370. Mostly irrelevant in these states.

Till it can stand on its own, the new party can ally with regional parties like TDP, BJD, JDU. Act as a bridge between BJP and regional parties opposed to Congress.

For some leaders (like P A Sangma), it will provide an alternative if they find BJP attractive but do not want to associate with it.


Summary:
Once upon a time, there were two BJPs - the Vajpayee one (centrist) and the Advani one (hardline). Together, they brought the party some success. Today, we have a single party that is confused and confusing.

Let the BJP remain rightist Hindutva party. New party to carry along moderate Hindus and expand the support base. It will be like twin-engines taking Hindu interests forward.

Maverick said...

Off the track:

2 important points on the drought.

1) For people who laughed at the astrology, the drought is answering. Every intellectual in the country laughed at the astrologers when they said the latest solar eclipse would bring very bad consequences in the country. Now English media and the intellectuals are getting their answers.

2) (a) God help those who help themselves. The only state in India which has excess rainfall is Gujarat. Also before Modi, Gujarat was not growing cane, now with drip irrigation Gujarat is a decent producer of Sugar. (b) US agriculture secretary Tom Vilsack has just blamed bad monsoon in India for the rising Sugar commodity index in the wall street. Modi critics have now pull by their socks as in the next few weeks Gujarat agriculture success would occupy center-stage in the world food crisis debate.

Many be MMS has to go with his begging bowls to Modi in the next few weeks.

PS: People who are following dip irrigation in India, would appreciate the importance of the Doshion factory coming up in Gujarat.

mpanj said...

KG, DoubtingGaurav,

that is the single most important question.

Does BJP deserve to remain a political entity.

Is BJP out to prove Churchill right "If the British left, India will fall back quite rapidly through the centuries into the barbarism and privations of the Middle Ages".

Can we never rise above self-interest for the greater good.

Will the Gandhi Parivar be needed at all times to hold us together.

Do we need to disband the BJP and from its ashes create a new political entity based on a new framework.

1. Articulate what constitutes 'membership'.

2. Hold elections for all posts.

3. Run a US style primary for all elected bodies (or atleast, for the post of CM and PM).

It will be painful for the first few years with wars being fought in the public domain.

But oh, how it would bring the BJP back. It would show up the Congress for what it is - Babalog party.

Most importantly, no one will be able to complain about the electoral outcomes.

The media will use this 'circus' to score points against the BJP - but once this process takes root - people will demand a similar process within other political parties.

Surely, there's room for fraud - bogus memberships, double voting, etc.

But its better than this 'high command' Gandhi family culture.

p.s. RSS should act as an unbiased Election Commission. And accept whatever may be the outcome of these Primaries/elections.

If it wants its brand of Hindutva to be accepted by the nation than it must do so by convincing Indians, not by inserting its proxies into a pliable political party.

Do so will destroy both the party and Hindutva.

mpanj said...

@Maverick:

couldnt agree more with u.

As 60 years of Congress rule brings India to the threshold of ecological and economic disaster, one state is likely to stand head and shoulders above the rest.

Just look at the data points coming from every corner of India.

NASA's latest findings suggest water tables across North India have depleted at rate of a foot/year (with no drop in rainfall).

Gujarat is the ONLY state where water tables have risen. An unheard of occurence in independent India.

Farmers in almost every state are committing suicide - Jarkhand, Punjab, UP (in addition to M'rastra, AP, etc.).

Prices are going through the roof.

Infrastructure is inadequate or is falling apart.

And the media is busy pinning the tail on the Opposition Monkey - trying to let Congress off the hook.

"how is Mayawati funding statues when the state is going dry"

"Bihar declares 26 districts drought affected"

Not a mention of how this crisis has been 60 years in the making.

But the time will come when NaMo's achievements will need to be acknowledged.

In a mere 8 years he has transformed Gujarat.

As the single largest agrarian crisis since 1942 envelops India, one state will stand out for its explosive growth on a range of parameters - Agri production, standard of living, Clean energy generation, infrastructure, etc.

Can anyone then, deny NaMo the reigns!

Dark Lord said...

@Maverick also

>>For people who laughed at the astrology, the drought is answering. Every intellectual in the country laughed at the astrologers when they said the latest solar eclipse would bring very bad consequences in the country.

WTF!!!
"latest solar eclipse would bring very bad consequences in the country" is such a big black hole that anything and everything would fit into it. From Sachin breaking a leg to Tsunami. From swine flu to an earthquake. Every year/month, there are some bad consequences for India.

Anonymous said...

socal said In secular India, to be a minority is glorious.

You bet because only hindus produce people like the guy who goes by name GOPI heere
and dime a dozen self hating dhimmi hindus or sold out cheap jaichands, eg barkha,prannoy,rajdeep,vir,vinod mehta,sagarika,nandita das etc etc in english media.

such guys have no self respect or nationalism.
they have big egoes for no reason because their liberal arts majors show they are bottom ranked in school eg nandita is ba geography,b dutt is english lit.

these guys should be focused on geography and literature respectively but like arundhati roy they have forgotten to look in the mirror at those high school 50 % bottom rankes marks.

they have the nerve to lecture 1 biillion people that namo and bjp is bad.

take GOPI here.the stubborn ego finally realized he couldnt match the facts knowledge and analysis of poeple like sudhir and panj He was slammed here and put in his lowestlife place
where these traitors belong.

Anonymous said...

nickil good post. who knew shivraj singh during uma bharati and namo during keshubai patel.


or for that matter amitabh bachan when rjesh khannna was at his peak in 69-73

I, Me, Myself ! said...

@Nikhil - Excellent comment. I am totally in sync with your reasoning, and I really hope the higher ups in the BJP realise that. The Vajpayee- Advani era is over. The sooner the party realises it, the better it is.

- Sudhir

charuvak said...

Welcome back, Swapanda.

Once a BJP office from Kerala told me, RSS waits until the disease spreads really badly and they go for amputation.

RSS, according this friends of mine, prefers amputation over drug therapy !

Srihari said...

The change of role for Smt. Vansundhara Raje unilaterally decided by the central leadership doesn't speak well of the internal democracy in the party. One gets the suspicion if some rootless central leaders are deliberately bent on cutting the roots of the few mass leaders left in the party.

Vik said...

welcome back to blogosphere swapanda...completely agree with nikhil's comments that the time has come to promote a number of national leaders from among the regional/state level leaders, make them address rallies and campaign all over the country so that in 2014 we will have a problem of plenty rather than paucity of 'real national leaders' as was the case during this election.

Indian Nationalist said...

I think the RSS should dump the BJP and look for a new political party.

I am willing to join a new Hindu political party in India. I have strong thoughts for the nation and want to contribute but I absolutely detest the BJP because it is filled up of power hungry people like Raje, Jaswant singh, Arun Jaitley, arun shorie and Swapan Das gupta.

I hope Mohan Bhagawat forms a new political party and just dumps this pakistani BJP.

Let me see how many HOURS(NOT DAYS, MONTHS) can the BJP survive without RSS?. My guess is not more than 2 hours.

People like Swapan Das Gupta will run to the shelter of Sonia Gandhi.

Anonymous said...

Nikhil

Great post , 100% agreememnt.
RNS term is getting over so that is okay.

Arun Jaitely should look after Delhi cricket board only.
Advani should be told time over. Move on.

Things will improve.

Anyway if netas in bjp have problem with rss , why dont they start their own party ?

Are they afraid that they will loose ?
Where is that intellectual sudhindra kularni ..

PS :
Indian Nationalist == Balaji.

Anonymous said...

What happened to the BJP program of getting back Swiss bank money. Why is Advani or maybe Shourie not touring the country raising this issue ?? Before the elections the government got away with some cock and bull story about how they will take some action in a few months. Nothing has been done about this. So why is Advani silent now. Or was it raised before the elections (as the media alleged) just for electoral purposes ??

Anonymous said...

Advani should adopt the tactics of Cato the elder. This man ended every speech of his in the Roman senate with the words "Delenda Carthago" or Carthege must be destroyed. Similary Advani should end every speech with "Bring back the swiss money" or something like that. THat would add credibility when the BJP raises the issue in the next election

Indian Nationalist said...

A New Hindu political party with the following objectives:

a. Bharat is a Hindu Rashthra and will remain a Hindu Rashthra.

b. Hinduism and associated Dharmic religions(Sikh,Jain) will be the only religions in Bharat.

c. All other minorities (Muslims/Christians), Seculars(Ambika Soni,congress), Intellectuals(Swapan das gupta) and Communists are free to leave the country and will be actively encouraged to do so.

AND THERE SHOULD BE ABSOLUTELY NO COMPROMISE WITH THESE OBJECTIVES.


COMPROMISE IS NOT POSSIBLE !!!!

Jai Joshi said...

Just discovered this blog and have been having fun reading through all the posts and comments. Very interesting and thought provoking stuff.

Anonymous said...

BJP is dead - long live BJP~

Anonymous said...

BJPnetas are busy with bringing each other down and Cong, on the other hand, is doing its best to steal urban base, latest being new tax code - a big boost to professional/salaried classes! And, these jokers are occupied with destroying each other. The most laughable part is the reason given for removal of Raje.
Swapan, Shekhawat was never a mass leader like Raje is. And, he never won a majority for BJS-BJP like Raje did in 2003 (it is funny his cronies asking her removal for reducing BJP from 120 to 80 - BJP was reduced from 100 to 30+ in 1998 and BSS still remained Leader of Opp). What is happening in BJP has nothing to do with any principles, policy or other ideals - a raw power struggle! And, nothing good can come out of this. It is better to forget about party / netas and instead focus on ideas, the most powerful weapon. Recall how LKA / BJP forced a change of discourse in 90's on other major players.

Anonymous said...

No comment is needed on this story in New IE. It is so sad to see a party being destroyed by its own leaders and workers / supporters reduced to being side-watchers.
=====================

Raje remains defiant
A defiant Vasundhara Raje today upped ante against BJP leadership, saying responsibility for party's poll debacle in the country has to be "fixed from the top". Raje, who refused to step down as Leader of Opposition in Rajasthan assembly on directive of high command, made it clear that she alone cannot be blamed for BJP's poor performance.

"As far as the poll debacle of party is concerned, it was not only in Rajasthan but the setback was suffered all over the country, and responsibility should be fixed from top to bottom in leadership ladder," Raje told reporters here.

Raje said she has full support of the party MLAs, who will decide on who should be the Leader of the Opposition. However, state party leader Ram Das Agarwal, once known as a Raje loyalist, said "she should tender her resignation as the high command has asked for it".

Criticising the decision of the MLAs to go to Delhi, Aggarwal said, "It was not a well thought out move and they will realise it later".

Asked about the high command's decision, state BJP President Arun Chaturvedi said, "Central leadership has asked Vasundhra Raje to tender her resignation as leader of opposition. This is a normal process of change of leadership".

"Change of responsibilities is a normal process and there is no bad intention as such against anyone as aired by the media," he said.

Asked if any action would be initiated against MLAs and other party leaders who went to Delhi in support of Raje, Chaturvedi said, "I cannot say anything at this moment".

Anonymous said...

I thinkVasu should form a regional party in Raj - unlike Uma, she has her own money to support new party - and get 30-40 MLAs and 5-10 MPs and then see these very same BJP leaders grovel in front of her for alliance (like they do in Punjab, Haryana, WB, Bihar, AP, TN, Maharashtra, etc). That will be a nice revenge against ingrates who were totally supported by her mother when not many helped them out!

Anonymous said...

As a young right conservative in India, I feel sidelined and stiffled many times because of the proliferation of left liberal ideology in university campuses all over India, I am sending a link to an excellent article about what young conservatives are doing in the US

http://www.dailytexanonline.com/opinion/america-s-new-right-conservative-counterculture-1.979331

we seriously need a conservative culture in India also- Varoon

Anonymous said...

Advani is trying to do a Sonia. But see how he remains a leader of high moral stature. People are naming names like RSS, RN Singh and so on. Advani is still a saint. Does BJP confer sainthood?

Iamfordemocracy

Anonymous said...

balaji's genius as usual

''There is no democracy at any level in the BJP. Just one big RSS mafia which rules everything.''

wow.

but this genius will never talk about the congress for 60 yrs.

bjp is 1 million times more demo than congress.

but for that u need minimal brains.

may be u should start writing from the other end.

give it a try,may be that end has some grey cells atleast.

Anonymous said...

I hate to admit this but with the mess that the BJP is in, it is better to support Congress.

Rajnath Singh and his RSS cabal have taken the BJP to a position from where it will take 50 years to recover.

Who the hell is this Rajnath Singh and why is he still the President of the party?

How can you remove Raje if she has support of 60/78 MLAs. What's wrong with the party leadership.

Coming to RSS, if RSS is so great how come BJP is losing election after election.

RSS itself is losing ground and relevance.

Anonymous said...

Swapanda, I read your article in the Pioneer. I totally agree with you.

How can BJP remove Raje when she has support of majority of MLAs.

Rajnath Singh needs to be thrown out first.

Vineet said...

Swapan if the no. of MLA's is the logic then Khanduri should never have been made the CM in Uttarakhand but he was made as the party rightly thought he was the best man for the job.
Vasundhara Raje must be credited with Rajasthan's economic development but under her the worse clashes took place between Meenas & Gujjars(with Congress support perhaps). In order to bridge the divides I feel BJP needs a non Raje person for some time.

Anonymous said...

Diehard BJP supporters do not have anything to support or celebrate.

BJP leaders are putting on such a sorry spectacle, there is no reason to support the party. The leaders at the centre are clueless, interested in promoting their own selves.

Raje is the only leader who is popular in Rajasthan and she is being treated this way inspite of having support of majority of MLAs.

Just who do the top leadership in BJP think they are. Just who is this Rajnath Singh and what has he done for the party.

Anonymous said...

BJP is now joke of a party. The central leadership is the biggest joke.

The party has seen its best days and now we should get ready for 20-30 year Congress rule under the able leadership of Rahul Gandhi.

Anonymous said...

Now these jokers in Delhi are making this a "prestige" issue. So they are hardening their positions. What a sorry spectacle?

Anonymous said...

Why should Raje take crap from two bit leaders like RN Singh? She should just split the BJP in Rajasthan and form a regional party.

These guys who are running the party need a slap on their faces. Apparently they want to look at the future.

I am a die hard supporter of the BJP and if this is how I am feeling, what does the ordinary folks thinking. In this party, all the top leaders keep fighting all the time. No unity of purpose.

Why isn't that self serving leader Jaswant Singh being kicked. Didn't the BJP's own report say that he worked against part's interests in Raj.

Anonymous said...

As I said earlier, BJP should change their name to either Bharatiya Jhagda Party or Bharatiya Joker Party.

That sums up pretty much what these guys represent now.

Anonymous said...

Swapanda, If you get a chance to meet with party bigwigs, please let them know that party supporters are mighty pissed at what is going on with the party.
What the hell is going on with the party. There is no end to self goals.

rone said...

Shame on the leadership to allow this public spat happen.LKA is once agian abstaining without taking stern decisions like a leader(remember AJ-RNS damaging one during elections).
Raje has her short comings but do definitley have her big pluse.then you should also look at her detractors who even after being senior leaders still ran a dirty maliciuos campaingn against her.
call every body, Raje,Jaswant singh,Yeshwant sinha ,Arun shourie all to Simla and do a real introspection.Let there be changes top to bottom.We would like LKA to start with, by announcing the date on which he is going to pass the mantle.

Vasundhara Raje said...

@Anonymous:

It is much easier if you give yourself a name or nickname. Use the Name/URL option

Anonymous said...

Oh.. your blog's visitor counter has hit 6 digits!!

sanjay said...

It's my personal opinion but I think Khanduri set the right precedent and by extention even Vasundhara Raje cannot escape accountability, she can still actively work for BJP. These precedents will put pressure on all non performers to follow suit. Only a meritocratic BJP can hope to play a defining role in Indian political landscape.

Maverick said...

@Dark lord:

The worst drought in a century is not the same as any other event (say like Swine Flu).

Unfortunately our English media dont understand priorities. In a 30 minute news-tainment Swine flu occupies 10 minutes, the stupid ads occupy 9 1/2 mins and Mr. Khan & Mr. Johar occupy another 10 mins. A news item on drought is less than 30 secs. Hence we do not understand the gravity of the present drought.

Straight Talk said...

Why blame the RSS for all the ills in the BJP. If someone really knows the truth behind RN Singh appointment, he was hand-picked by LKA. (People who understand UP politics would appreciate the fact that RNS rise in UP was directly proportional to the downsizing of Kalyan Singh. RNS was promoted to downsize KS because of the insecurity of few leaders in Delhi). Infact it has been RSS dedicated service which has been so far responsible for the rise of the BJP and the insecurities of certain leaders in Delhi and their egoism which has led to the down-fall.

Though its time decision moves from Nagpur to Delhi, people should appreciate the contributions of the sangh in the rise of BJP.

The present scenario of BJP is like that of a newly wed. The parents (RSS) are always concerned about their children's(BJP) future. They are not completely sure (even after marriage) whether their kid is capable to take care of himself (Indian Parental syndrome). The new Bahu (new set of middle class blogging supporters) starts abusing the in-laws (spouse parents).The Bahu calls them regressive (so do the blogger call the Sangh). This is a situation a newly wed in his late twenties. (The BJP is also in its late twenties). The solution lies in the guy(BJP) showing his balls to perform independently, the parents (Sangh) giving space to perform and in the Bahu stopping to abuse her in-laws for every problem confronted.


PS: Beware of Mandodaries like Balaji who are hell bent on blogging nonsense.

Anonymous said...

A lot of diehard supporters of BJP are giving up on the BJP. The latest book on Jinnah by Jaswant is another thing that is driving people away from the BJP.

How can you say that Jinnah was better than Nehru?

Swarup said...

The link is not working.

SamudraGupta said...

I have to agree with Straight talk. Kalyan Singh was downsized after he developed prime ministerial ambitions after delivering 57 seats to BJP in 1998 election.

If one looks at how BJP came to power, answer is UP. UP delivered 57 seats in 1998 at the height of RJB movement and Kalyan delivered that to BJP.

1999 win was because of Kargil war victory.

You take 180 seats and take away 40 odd seats from UP and you end with 140 seats like in 2004 elections.

sanjay said...

Swapanda,

As many have enumerated before, the ails of BJP are deep rooted and to cure them it will take a lot of time and effort, and the starting point is a SINCERE introspection not a frivolous one. Whatever decisions they take they must keep the long term consequences in mind, it's not possible to solve their problem in the short term anyway.

The Maverick said...

Swapan Da,

The BJP is already dead. What is left is the final rites. Did not know one electoral defeat would turn its leaders into committing the harakiri of murdering their own organisation.

WR said...

A lot of diehard supporters of BJP are giving up on the BJP. The latest book on Jinnah by Jaswant is another thing that is driving people away from the BJP.

How can you say that Jinnah was better than Nehru?


It helps the BJP woo some of INCs Muslim voters. This is something the BJP has to do to grow from where it is. Let INC come out and deny that Jinnah was better than Nehru :-).

Anonymous said...

This Jaswant Singh fellow should be shown the door. talk about scoring self goals. Not sure what he is upto.

Anonymous said...

wow, bjp is paying for its internal democracy.Swapan writes a blog and we hahve so called bjp friends clobbering it.With friends like these, who needs enemies.

swapan chooses never to write on congress and so does media.And we kicked out the british to be democratic.

Let us be happy that now we have queen sonia instead of queen victoria

So we have dissent and the bjp is infighting possibly something that happens in congress too
over last 25 years but is hushed up by congress friendly media.

great guys now u have been so influenced that
there is no difference between bjp enemies
and you so called supporters all because swapan wrote about it.

SamudraGupta said...

What is the matter with the BJP? Right when it seemed like it was getting its act together we have this Raje episode in which the part leadership is at fault.

On top of that we have Jaswant Singh talking absolute rubbish. What was the need to write a book like this. What is his point? Nehru bad, Gandhi bad, Patel bad but Jinnah worthy of praise. Is he going to praise Musharraf for Kargil as well. I used to respect this guy but it seems he is just looking for some attention. Could be a bit senile as well.

Also, does not the BJP's internal report talk about Jaswant Singh acting against the party's interests in Raj. He had the audacity to ask for accountability given what he has done in Rajasthan.

With friends like these BJP does not need enemies.

What does the BJP represent. Is is something that Varun Gandhi talks about or is it something that Jaswant Singh talks about.
There is no one in charge, no hierarchy. Everybody is spouting their own s****.

RSS was right about being cautious about Jaswant and Brajesh. Both have turned out to be traitors.

Samudra said...

>>It helps the BJP woo some of INCs Muslim voters. This is something the BJP has to do to grow from where it is. Let INC come out and deny that Jinnah was better than Nehru :-).

Nice try. BJP will lose Hindu votes and get zero votes. IS praising a guy like Jinnah a way to get Muslim votes, Why don't they start by getting rid of Varun Gandhi,

What does the BJP stand for these days? Does anyone know.

Samudra said...

Anonymous at August 18, 2009 5:28 AM.

All I can say is wake up and smell the coffee. Go and talk to some BJP supporters and ask them what they feel about what is going on with the BJP. Some people would even say that the party is finished.

Incompetent leadership is not to be confused with democracy. If there was democracy, Raje would not have been asked to resign.

Ex leader of opposition in Rajya Sabha is pleased with Jinnah and finds fault with Patel. The party does not seem to agree with him. But the old guy is happy with the attention he is getting. What is the message to the people and the cadre. That we stood for the last 60 years was wrong.

No other party would behave in this stupid fashion.

Instead of being an apologist, you should be asking some hard questions to the party leadership.

Indian Nationalist said...

swapan das gupta, I have an advice for you. At the fag end of your career in journalism where it is understandable that you need some money for your survival, it is fine for you listing out every minute details against the BJP and ignoring Congress or Sonia. It is understandable for you to goto Sonia Maino camp.

I have one news for you. We nationalists are not going anywhere or changing our stance. Hindutva was and will remain the guiding force of my destiny and our nations destiny.

The current phase since the past 6 years has been the bad phase of Hindutva forces. We might even face a worse phase in the next decade.

But NO, we are not going to change our stance or our position or our parties. Our commitment to Hindutva will remain firm and sound.

Sonia Mainos come and go, but the dream of a Hindu Rashthra is alive and kicking,

Hindu Rashthra is Bharats Destiny and we shall have it.

No Sonia Maino, Jaswant singh, LK Advani, Congress party, Swapan Das Gupta or other traitors can change that !.

WR said...

Nice try. BJP will lose Hindu votes and get zero votes. IS praising a guy like Jinnah a way to get Muslim votes

Most Muslim voters know that it was Nehru's megalomania that prevented Jinnah from becoming PM, thereby leading to partition. It is not as if it is a secret. It is up to BJP leaders to tell their base of this fact.

If there was democracy, Raje would not have been asked to resign.

Are you kidding me? How else do you break the stranglehold of a leader who may have bought off all the legislators? This does not turn solely on a question of democracy. People have to be reminded that winning the race is job 1.

Anonymous said...

why are an overwhelming majority of MLAs supporting Raje?

But why wouldn't the majority of MLAs support Raje? They are beholden to her for divvying up the spoils.

A more accurate question is if Raje has the confidence of the Rajasthan BJP. Perhaps polling the MLAs including those who lost in the assembly elections is in order.

Anonymous said...

samudra,
first you are wrong about varun.

varun was speaking in self defence.

yes bjp is incompetent and maybe raje was okay.

but such mistakes are made by thos ehwo have a right to decide and we do not know the truth.

do we have to clobber the only opposition party for that.Of course they shud improve.

but here we have people sounding like bjp enemies.

and your comment about varun says it all.that is the standard propagnda about modi varun muthalike who rise up head held high to fight jihad against india and bjp haters liek u have aproblem.

who are u to decide for the bjp.at laest rn singh and advanai have a legal right to fire vasu raje.

you should wwork for congress.

how many congress men ahve made hate speches in elections and ec ignored them.

so rebut or get lost.

I am sick of half knowlege and idiots.

first ask ec to be fair and go and fire j and k cms for hatred of jihad

varun wa sreacting to rap e of a hindu girl by 4 muslims and jiahdis are rampant in india.

u call that wrong.u r crazy and ignorant.

do u know what a christian congress knataka minsiter said about guj earthquake.

that god punished gujarat.

where were slimes like u then

varn shud be thrown out wow.

come back with afactual rebuttal.i am waitin
whose fault is it if you are ignorant and have no sense of fairplay for hindus.

even osama is better than brainwashed dhimmis like u.go and work for jihadi agents liek ndtv,ibn toi


congress

Anonymous said...

i am ashamed to be a hindu and indian because of people like u smaudra.

wow what outrage about varun.

remeber antulay and 26-11

do u have any outrage for kashmiri hindus.

60,000 dead to terror because of congress policies
wow and your rear starts burning when varun opens his mouth in some dubious pre election stunt and no one ven knows whrethe video came from because chawla and jihadi qureshi both sonia's dogs control ec.

does your rear burn to know that an unpire is on the payroll of one team.

no even a school kid would be outaged

but you ---- get rid of varun
is top priority

yeah it is a crime to defend hindus in your islamkic country .good luck with the virgins. you deserve them more than osama.

mpanj said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pKfZ615DDU



Folks, this is a 3 part interview with the new head of RSS.



During this (2nd part) toward the end he's asked about infighting.



And watch how he lays down the law. "It must stop - this is too much"



Finally, RSS has a hammer, they havent had since Raju Bhaiya. One who is sharp enough never to interfere openly but to lay down the law behind closed doors.



There is hope.

Samudra said...

Annonymous, cool down a bit. Regarding Varun, I was responding to the guy who was talking about Jaswant book helping BJP get minority votes.

Secondly, where did I criticise Modi or other BJP folks. Where did I say anything about Kashmir.


Just calm down and use your brain because your opponents are most likely using theirs.

Samudra said...

BJP has done an excellent jon in kicking Jaswant Singh out.

Since he will have no takers in India, maybe he should explore a political career in Pakistan.

Maybe his son will now get Muslim votes in his constituency.

According to Jaswant Singh. Nehru, Patel, Gandhi bad. Jinnah great and Jaswant Singh: God's gift to India for showing the light.

Now he can pursue a purely academic career since he has shown inclinations of pursuing that.

Samudra said...

So Jaswant wants to do soch, vichar, chintan.

He will have all the time in the world to do that.

This guy sabotaged BJP's prospects in the Rajasthan assembly elections and now he is giving gyan about Jinnah.

Balaji said...

i know nobody cares, but I resigned from the BJP this afternoon. if a leader like Jaswant Singh loses his fight with the fascists, what hope there is?

just for the record, let me repeat what I wrote in a earlier comment to this post, five days ago.

There is no democracy at any level in the BJP. Just one big RSS mafia which rules everything.

RSS, its poodle Rajnath (RN Singh?!) and the 'reformed' bootlicker Advani are out to destroy the moderates.

Samudra said...

What's with Kanchan Gupta and others expressing outrage about the expulsion of Jaswant Singh.

He asked for it and got it. Why should he be treated differently. Who is so enamoured of this guy. He has to go to Darjeeling to fight an election.

Those who are comparing him with Advani should know better. Did Advani say that Jinnah is great and Nehru and Patel bad.

Jaswant Singh was pissed off because Sushma Swaraj was made deputy leader of Opposition. He scuttled Raje chances of coming back to power in Rajasthan.

As I said earlier, he asked for it and got it. Why is he crying now.

Samudra said...

Wow, someone is saying that BJP is picking on Jaswant. As if he was sitting in a corner by himself and the bully picked on him.

It is just a book. Jaswant claims. Please write more books but please do not stay in the BJP and air your outlandish revisionist history.

The party has enough problems and it does not want another attention seeking old man.

Straight Talk said...

Part 1:
Swapan in his article “Politics beyond Hindutva” insists that changes in society and the BJP’s inability to cope with the same has led to the defeat. He essentially points that Indian middle class has moved from 90’s to 2009 whereas the BJP is stuck in the early 90’s. Infact Swapan has been writing a series of articles to drive home this point of view. (The recent article on NRI’s was also written with the premise that Middle India has moved from inferiority complex to self-confidence).

Though Swapan’s argument holds some merit; the major problem with the BJP seems to be change and not stagnation - the change for the bad. The change from

a) a party of difference to a party of differences.
b) a party of moral highness to a party of corruption (one party president takes money, another party president brings S Mittal and Neera Yadav into the party)
c) a party run by politicians to a party run by Journalists and Henchmen.
d) a party of promise (Ram Janmaboomi movement) to a party of political opportunism (promise of Ram temple only during elections).

Actually it is the loss of moral values and not the stagnation of ideas or ideology which is costing the party more. “Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely” holds well incase of BJP.

Though I am in complete agreement with Swapan that there is lot of politics beyond ‘Hindutva’ (yes, Pseudo-Hindutva is over-shadowing the many goods of the BJP like the good governance of its state governments etc), moving away from the Hindu cause/ Hindutva will be seen as another political opportunism than as refashioning for the changing times.

Swapan has a point when he says that the new generation of Indians are confident (do not suffer from Islamiphobia), but fails to mention that this confidence comes from aggression. This generation likes aggressive ideas. It is a misplaced conception that 2009 victory was a victory of the moderates (as projected by the media & Swapan’s best friend AJ), it is the actually the lack of aggression (extremism in the right sense) in BJP which made them lose.

Straight Talk said...

Part 2:

Finally, with change being the only constant in life & politics, there are few more constants which succeed in politics – Honesty, Integrity & Sincerity. BJP of 90’s was perceived to have had them and BJP of 2009 needs little mention in this aspect.

Swapan’s apprehension is that BJP’s fixation with Ram Mandir is costing them dear; the truth is that BJP’s loss of values is costing more than anything else. Even today, the new generation will vote BJP on the issue of Ram and Roti (with no policy framework on governance with which the right-leaning journalists are obsessed with), but only if BJP appears sincere (Sadly that is not the case).

PS:
a) Swapan blames the defeat because of BJP’s fixation with regressive ideas. In a globalised world Protectionism is seen as a regressive idea, but BO (in the times of an economic slowdown) won the US presidential elections with the above regressive idea because he appeared honest
b) Swapan attribution of DC’s success in UK to not wearing ties and representation for minorities is true to good extent. But the defining feature is that DC appears to be more honest and frank that GB.

Straight Talk said...

Its time BJP expels MMJ & RNS also

Devdhar gomago said...

So who will stick , hindutwa ghetto, or who have done eons of service to the party ( oxford ghetto )

Anonymous said...

samudra,
u said something about varun,that is enough with or w.o jaswant context.

That is a refelction of your attitude and priorities .and you are in great company of the jihaids and secular elmedia jihadis like ibn ndtv,toi,vir,mehta etc etc

by the way the mullahs have been guilty of hate speech enshrined in the qoran for 60 yrs.


and why should anyone cool down because u say so.you deserve it. if you have brains you would not order the bjp and me about asif we are your property.

anger against traitors is valid.

only traitors can take positions against hindu defenders like varun and agree with the modi and bjp baiters calling tehmselves seularists on jihadi and congress payroll.

and yes one morething,u seem to arrogate too may rights to yourself.including issuing certs
on brains

read your post and see for yourself that it is unclear at which end ur brains are.

Anonymous said...

swiss bank loot acted upon by rich countries.and apoor country has been looted for 60 yrs.congress said it will act before elctions and media is writing about bjp as usual in its steady hate campaign.

shame on media and the swarm of idiot bees here
who let media topics dictate the agenda.and are so stupid not to know the corrupt media is owned by congress and only in india the media is a watchdog of the opposition and not the government who is reponsible.

Why only ind INdia, because it has one billion eunuch castrated species called hindus

WASHINGTON – The U.S. pulled back the veil on Switzerland's famed tradition of banking secrecy Wednesday, winning an agreement for banking giant UBS AG to disclose the names of 4,450 American clients suspected of hiding assets in Swiss accounts.

The news is expected to prod thousands more UBS clients in America to voluntarily disclose their financial details to the Internal Revenue Service, lest they be pursued later.

The accounts held $18 billion at one time, though many have since been closed, said IRS Commissioner Doug Shulman.

"This agreement sends an unmistakable message to people hiding income and assets offshore," Shulman said. "The IRS will vigorously pursue tax cheats around the world, no matter how remote or secret the location."

The Swiss, known worldwide for keeping bank accounts secret, said UBS had no real choice in turning over the names.

Justice Minister Eveline Widmer-Schlumpf told a news conference in Bern that the deal lifts the threat of criminal prosecution against UBS, which not only would have endangered the bank's existence but would have dealt a severe blow to the Alpine nation's economy.

The agreement is part of the Obama administration's stepped-up efforts to go after wealthy tax dodgers hiding assets in offshore accounts, an initiative that promises to yield many more prosecutions, Shulman said.

UBS has an estimated 52,000 accounts held by U.S. customers. The IRS chief said the 4,450 accounts being identified were the ones most suspected of containing undeclared assets. Many of the rest are held by people who have complied with the law and paid their taxes, Shulman said.

Tax experts said the agreement should terrify Americans who had been able to hide assets in offshore accounts for generations with little fear of being caught.

"This is critically important because the Swiss caved," said Tom Cardamone, managing director of Global Financial Integrity, a Washington-based group that advocates tougher policies against international money laundering. "They agreed to give up names, so in that context, this is a real body blow to Swiss banking secrecy."

UBS
Earlier this year, UBS admitted assisting U.S. citizens in evading taxes as part of a deferred prosecution agreement with the Justice Department. UBS agreed to disclose the names of about 250 American clients and pay a $780 million penalty. The IRS subsequently filed its case seeking the names of additional U.S. taxpayers believed to be hiding assets.

The two sides told a federal judge last week they had reached a tentative agreement, but the details were not released until Wednesday.

The agreement includes several measures favorable to the Swiss — and giving the clients a chance to get right with the IRS.

Instead of releasing the names directly to U.S. authorities, UBS will turn them over to the Swiss Federal Tax Administration. Account holders will then be able to appeal their release to the IRS before Switzerland's Federal Administrative Court.

Anonymous said...

It is "Guided Democracy: or "No Democracy" indeed! You can not summarily expel even a peon like that. Here is one of the best comments on the goings-on in the Neo-Stalinist Party.

http://www.bhaskar.com/2009/08/19/090819205113_when_oll_face_be_jasvant_singh.html

And, there is a news report that Gujarat has banned his book. LOL~

In retorspect, Indian voters were wise NOT to hand their destiny over to these clowns!

Anonymous said...

Samudra,
One uses brain if one has got it; "stuck records" do not - they only have same thing again and again. And, Annony-mouse-ly.

Anonymous said...

Has anyone here actually read Jaswant's book? Why not wait until someone has read it fully and then cast stones?

On politics, has Jawant been any worse than Advani? Rajnath? Jaitley - recall his stunt just before the election?

BJP is dying, if not dead already - Long live BJP! We need to look at an alternative which actuallly believes in something, is genuinely pro-Hindu (and not just anti this or that) and whose leaders have committment to some basic values / standards! What values does current BJP leadership have other than indulge in open fights for power / positions?

Anonymous said...

I find it so amusing to read many self-styled BJP supporters here dubbing anyone who questions BJP leadership, policy as agents of ISI, Sonia, anit-Hindu, etc. Some have even accused Swapan to join Sonia for money! I guess many of them are too young to know that it was not a fashonable thing to be a pro-BJS/BJP person / intellectual in 60's thru 80's nor profitable. If anything, it was a brave, if not foolhardy, thing to do in those days. Still, a few like Swapan did that! Now, to accuse him and others of having sold out to Sonia because they have harsh things to say about BJP ... what nonsense. One does not have to be a YES man/woman to be a supporter or sympathiser of a party, movement, ideology. If this is the way forward, BJP will be left with only jee-hajurs like Congess-I has been since 70's! They can still survive / win (because of the goodwill earned and some leftover from pre-1947 days)! BJP can not! If it becomes a neo-stalinist outfit (if it has not already become), it will not survive! Why were Uma, Kalyan (first time), Khurana expelled? On differing with party policy? No~ They questioned the role of some central leaders (one of whom - AJ - is always a key figure in these fights) and criticised them and so they were shown the door. Is BJP some kind of Cult or Mutt or a political party?

mpanj said...

@Straight Talk -


"Actually it is the loss of moral values and not the stagnation of ideas or ideology which is costing the party more. “Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely” holds well incase of BJP."

You just nailed it.

Bring back honest, clean leaders like NaMo, Arun Shourie and others and within 3 years BJP will be back in the game.

Hindutva without personal integrity is hypocrisy.

Party with a difference - if and when there's a difference.

Anonymous said...

JS has been a liability ever since Kandahar. The party must have jumped at the opportunity to break from the past.

Anonymous said...

Graceless execution that portends a sect
- SWAPAN DASGUPTA

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1090820/jsp/frontpage/story_11385893.jsp

Rita said...

Studied silence on Jaswant Singh, Swapan?

Anonymous said...

Anybody with 20+ years of service to an organisation is not expelled for a single reason. Anybody worth his salt can see his pink slip coming. Performers and non performers are seen through different prisms, that is inherent in every organisation let alone BJP.

Maverick said...

Quoting from Swapan's article " Graceless execution that portends a sect "

"Thirdly, there is no acceptable consensus as yet as to who should replace Advani as the party’s national face. There are potential claimants —Sushma Swaraj, Arun Jaitley, Narendra Modi and, at a generous pinch, Rajnath Singh —but there can be no meaningful choice unless the party is clear about the road it has to travel."

What worries me more than the present mess in the party is these lines of Swapan (coming from the right hand of AJ). It was expected that AJ would stand like a rock behind Namo for the next Prime ministerial elections, but this article clearly puts the fact that AJ is also in the running to be successor and is not standing rock solid behind Namo.

It is not AJ's capability (AJ is a decent capable leader) as a leader that worries me but him not standing solid behind Namo does(by becoming an aspirant himself). Whatever opinion we may no Advani today, it must be acknowledged that ABV success can be traced to Advani solid whole-hearted backing.

Truly bad days are ahead for the BJP!!!

bjp_supporter said...

The Chintan Baithak could have produced some meaningful analysis of the election defeat, some clarity on future leadership, or in the worst case total silence.

Instead what we have is the stupid act of expelling a very senior leader over a book and generating unnecessary headlines/attention.

In the same day congress makes headlines for 20% donations from MLA/MP salaries.

For a BJP supporter, this is very very depressing.

Samudra said...

Swapan da, Jaswant had to go. Guy is probably senile. Everybody is baying for RN SIngh. LKA, Jaitley's blood but are very upset when JS has been kicked out.

Why should he not be kicked out? Didn't he know that there was a Jinnah controversy a few years ago. What was the need to write a book like this when BJP is trying to get its act together. Just some cheap publicity for the old guy.

If he is individualistic, then he does not belong in the party. A professor job will suit him.

Also I think Swapanda analysis is somewhat self serving. His dislike of RN Singh and things that are wrong in the party is clouding his ability to see the damage Jaswant Singh's views could haev caused the party. If you have read the news, Maharashtra BJP folks are pleased with the ouster of this guy. Maybe they know something about what is going on. Or maybe they are also RSS deputed guys who have an agenda.

While no one disagrees that BJP needs to be fixed, this overemphasis by commentators such as Swapan Dasgupta about the RSS influence is becoming a bit predictable.

Let Jaswant Singh and others who are not pleased with RSS interference start a new party and use Swapan Dasgupta etc as advisers and we will see how far the party goes. It is easy to criticise but RSS brings something to the table and it is better to learn to live with it than keep carping about that.

Swapan da, as a political analyst you should also write about the ramifications of Jaswant Singh's views than just taking a cynical view of happenings in the BJP.

JMT.

Samudra said...

Just read on CNN IBN how Jaswant was removed.
Even Swapan's friend Arun Jaitley agreed with the move to oust him from the party.
Also look at the charge against him.

"It was Rajnath Singh himself who asked if Jaswant should be expelled from the party altogether given the fact that he had worked against Raje in Rajasthan, written letters against party leadership in Delhi and now blaming Muslims for being alienated in India during the Devil's Advocate interview to CNN-IBN."

"Wary of taking on the Sangh Parivar bosses at this stage, Sushma Swaraj and Arun Jaitley also went along with the decision."



Yet Swapan Dasgupta has chosen to take a cynical view of this episode, somehow blaming RN Singh and RSS cabal.

It is not like I am supporting RN Singh and RSS cabal but trying to show Swapan Das Gupta that he too is biased.

To me the single largest charge against Jaswant Singh is his anti Raje activity in Raj that might have led to BJP's defeat in Raj and thus the loss of momentum.

Indian Nationalist said...

Good our "Claimed" BJP spokesman has started writing for Congress rag like Telegraph and was on 24*7 duty in Congress TV channels CNN-IBN and NDTV....Suits a Devil to be in Devils company.

Neither the BJP nor the RSS cares for a 2-faced , 2- timer like Mr. Swapan is.

Samudra said...

From NDTV: Excerpts

"However, Jaswant Singh's book on Jinnah was only the immediate provocation for his expulsion. NDTV has learnt that BJP leaders were ready with a chargesheet against Jaswant on Wednesday morning itself, and that his expulsion was already on the cards."

"On Wednesday, after expelling Jaswant, the leaders had a long discussion on what went wrong in the polls. Both the reports compiled by Bal Apte were discussed at length."


Swapan da, So Bal Apte report was discussed at length. Does that count as going over reasons for defeat?

Or does BJP have to do it in front of media unlike any other party?

I would say give them some time and see if they are effecting changes in the organization.

Anonymous said...

Rita,
See his article in Telegraph (URL posted just above your comment). Excellent. Here is another analysis on this topic:

State of strange madness/self-destructive delirium

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/party-to-differences/504204/

Anonymous said...

Samudra,
I am from Rajasthan. I believe Jaswant's opposition to Raje did NOT cause any actual harm (other than media publicity). The real harm was done by the RSS cabal to defeat at least 20 BJP candidates. And, it that is the charge, Rajnath should be the first one to be shwon the door - he was one of the principal actors in drama that eventually resulted in forcing Kalyan Singh out of BJP (like Uma/Khurana, helpd by Kalyan); BJP never recovered in UP even with his return in 2004. Are BJP cult leaders that no one can question / criticize them? BJP is finished for now. Yes, it has govts in several states but it has zero moral standing among the critical middle class segment. Separately, I find it funny, if not disgusting, to see many here call Jaswant a traitor. Here is a man educated at Mayo, who could have gone into business world and make lot of money, instead chose to serve his country's army and then join an opp party (BJS) which did not have anything to offer at that time! And, serve his country with honour. Do not bring up Kandhar; that was a decision taken by Cabinet after full consultation with all parties. It was not his personal decision. And what were they supposed to do? Get those 150 blown off? To call such a public man traitor by people - a lot of whom perhaps live in USA, have given up their Indian citizenship or are in process of doing so - that is such a load of crap, if not worse!

pranav said...

The headlines blaming, amongst others, the promotion of NaMo for the defeat are crazy. If there was anything wrong, it was that NaMo was not promoted right from the beginning.

Anonymous said...

Do not bring up Kandhar; that was a decision taken by Cabinet after full consultation with all parties. It was not his personal decision.

Whatever it was, it is affecting people's voting decisions. If the party cannot come out with an explanation, they have to drop the people involved in that affair.

And what were they supposed to do? Get those 150 blown off?

I don't have the answer, but that would have been a better decision electorally.

If you have read the news, Maharashtra BJP folks are pleased with the ouster of this guy.

Yes, why not? With Thackeray pacified and Kandahar reduced to a non-issue, it will help in the Maharashtra elections.

Straight Talk said...

Drawing parallel between 1947 and 26/11.

Characters:
Kasab = Jinnah
Hafeez = Nehru
Zardari = Patel

There can be two views on kasab after 26/11. One view is that Kasab has killed over 4 dozen people and is a dreaded terrorist and needs to be hanged immediately. Another view is that he was an ordinary innocent poverty struck paki who fell into the wrong hands of the LeT and needs a chance to redeem himself. But 99% Indian hold the former view.

Similar is the case with Jinnah he can be looked as the person responsible for partition or a secular person forced into wrong ways by the crooked method of Nehru.

The problem with both views is that we tend to ignore the cause, we are focussed on Jinnah/ Kasab and forgetful about the demons Nehru/Hafeez Sayeed. We should always appreciate the fact that Hafeez Sayeed is more culpable than Kasab. If it was not Kasab it would have been X or Y. Similarly If not for the Power hungry genes of Nehru Jinnah would not have turned communal for a theocratic state like Pakistan.

It can be put as a matter of debate on whether Kasab needs to be punished or Jinnah needs to be held responsible but society should be cautious about the genes of Hafeez Sayeed and Nehru.

PS:
For people who do not understand the quality of division genes Nehru had, the answer lies in 60 yrs of Dynastic rule in India and still country divided on the lines of Caste and religion.

Anonymous said...

poor gopi is really piqued,his big ego has taken a drubbing from sudhir,patil,panj etc.instead of rebutting them which he cant he vents his petty grudge .
he now hides his name in shame.that unjustifiedly big ego after all.

he hates modi.says it all.a true traitor plotting against a patriot who is too good for hindus because only hindus can produce such creatures like gopi.

Anonymous said...

swapan cesored the comment on swiss bank action
by usa etc.

shows how he is in cahots with congressowened mafia media.

disgusting that a poor country being looted means nothing to this guy .

he wants to draw attention from congress sins like his media gangsters.

at leaest they dont pretend to be pro bjp.

Anonymous said...

Modi forced Jaswant's expulstion for his alleged anti-Patel comments that goes against the "core ideology" of BJP. Now read:

--------
Sardar Patel charged RSS with spreading "communal poison", resulting in assassination of Mahatma Gandhi on January 30, 1948.

"As a final result of the poison, the country had to suffer the sacrifice of the valuable life of Gandhiji," Patel wrote to RSS chief MS Golwalkar on September 11, 1948.

"Even an iota of sympathy of the government or of the people no more remains for the RSS. The opposition [to the RSS] turned more severe when the RSS men expressed joy and distributed sweets after Gandhiji's death," Patel wrote.

Defending the government's decision to ban the RSS, Patel said that in these conditions it had become inevitable for the government to take action against the RSS.

Patel said speeches of RSS leaders were full of communal poison and it was not necessary to spread poison to protect and organise Hindus.
------------

I wonder what do BJP's great minds - Modi, Jaitley, Katiyar, Rajnath, Joshi, Prasad, Advani, Swaraj - as also from RSS-VHP have to say about Sardar's comments (there were a lot of letters exchanged between Guruji, Nehru, Sardar and Moli Chandra Sharma, and published as a book by RSS; I wonder if Jaitley & Co will accept what Sardar says in those letters as also some of his speeches around that time. BTW, Pt Sharma, who was the mediator between Guruji & Govt to facilitate a resolution of RSS ban later became BJS president and was unceremoniously expelled too for heresy)! Do they accept what Patel said and did about RSS? That should be THE question our media ought to ask these BJP geniuses! Let us also not forget that Sardar Patel was a life-long Congressman, not member of BJS-BJP, that he was the first one to ban RSS and put thousands of workers and leaders in jail (under a version of POTA then) and was a leading player in the confabulations that finally resulted in partition. Jaswant is NOT the first one to blame Nehru-Patel for forcing a change in the original Congress policy of "No partition" of Gandhiji. Ram Manohar Lohia accused both of that AND in much stronger language. BJS-RSS-BJP have had no hesitation in associating with Lohia, his SSP and Lohiates from 1963 onwards. Or Rajaji and his Swatantra Party (let us also recall that Rajaji was the first major Congress leader to advocate serious consideration of partition demand and was, short of expelling, given same treatment by Congress then as Jaswant now - they threw coal-tar at him in Mahim or Matunga - I forget). So convenient to use Sardar as bogey to remove a thorn by the Advani cabal!

I end this with last lines from Swapan's article in today's Telegraph ("Comic and Crass"):

“… Jaswant’s expulsion was widely endorsed by BJP workers for whom he was the symbol of the shameful capitulation in Kandahar. Unfortunately, elections are not won by votes of paid-up political workers. Does the truncation of the political imagination appeal to those who are BJP’s potential voters? The jury is still out."

The jury verdict will soon be out in Maharashtra, Haryana, Jharkhand.

Samudra said...

Anyone sabotaging BJP's prospects should be dealt with severely. In Rajasthan some RSS folks who were in the BJP were asked to go back to RSS.

It is a different matter that Jaswant Singh has no political clout and hence he did not have much impact.

Also, have peopel forgotten his book in 2006 where he spoke about a mole in the PMO and when Manmohan Singh dared him to prove it, he had nothing to say. He had some document that was not conclusive proof of his claims. That had put the BJP on the nackfoot at that time.

As I said earlier, this guy is a weirdo or a guy bent on seeking publicity. Good riddance.

Swabhimaan said...

is Modi actually blamed by the inside report or is it just another media spin?

Did he say that he is the PM candidate? I don't think so. This was largely created by the media and the Congress. So why blame him?

Samudra said...

Prabhu Chawla has cited two reasons for getting rid of JS:

1) Saving the alliance with SS in Maharashtra
2) Blunting the Congress campaign in Gujarat.

I am surprised that long time political analyst Swapan Dasgupta does not delve into these issues.

Losing an ally in Maharashtra is probably more important keeping a guy in the party who keep embarassing the party time and time again.

His latest comments against Patel shows that decision to throw him out was absolutely right.

Politics is not about writing books based on "facts". That's why I keep saying that he should join the history department of some university and write journal articles and books.

Talking about Patel banning RSS without the actual context is like saying Jaswant Singh supported terrorism by escorting terrorsist to Kandahar. Why go down this path?

His utterances provide enough evidence to show that Jaswant is a self serving guy and has no regard to the party well being.

He should have been shown the door earlier.

Anonymous said...

An interesting interview with Govindacharya on Jaswant issue. Fair and balanced.

http://www.amarujala.com/today/editnews.asp?edit=19.asp

Anonymous said...

Samudra,
If such a critrion for removal is applied honestly, not slectively, then most of leadership of BJP (and RSS too) should be shown the door, starting from Advani, Rajnath, Jaitley, Joshi and all the way down to most state satraps who one time or other indulged in factional intrigues and caused damage to BJP - some of them even sullied its reputation with their dishonest activities/company!

Anonymous said...

Patanjali says:

Indifference (UPEKSHA) toward Unvirtuous (APUNYA)

Samudra said...

Anonymous,

The BJP leaders who you have mentioned might have indulged in intrigues but the public controversies associated with Jaswant is on a different scale as far as I am concerned.

I mean this guy talks in his book about India being a "multinational aggregate" or something like that. "Jinnah is a great man". Do you know about direct action that Jinnah brought about. This guy has no place in the party. Even Congress would not subscribe to this theory. This is a theory held by left wing loonies.

I mean there is nothing wrong in having these views but they sully the reputation of the party. Hence, the best course for him would be to resign from the party and pursue his interests.

Another factor one has to keep in mind is that none of BJP allies have wanted to break off ties with BJP because of Advani, RN SIngh, Jaitley's utterances. But Shiv Sena wanted to break off ties with BJP over this.

What kind of irresponsible, self serving top leader would put his own party in this position.

Goes to show he cares about his book, his position and how much he stays in the limelight more than he cares about the party.

Having said that I think Rajnath Singh needs to be downsized and I think most people including RSS probably realize that.

The right courese for BJP is to change the leadership structure and bring in fresh young people. Everyone knows that and we have to see how it is done or not done.

Vishnu said...

@Swabhimaan,
Obviously it is another media spin to defame Modi. Publicly, he kept saying that Advani was the PM candidate, going so far as to say that God willing, Advani would be the PM candidate in 2014 (had the BJP won the elections). He is least to blame for it. The Modi for PM chorus was started partially by Arun Shourie, marginally supported by Arun Jaitley but mostly broadcasted by the media to discredit Advani and the BJP campaign. Moreover, for the first time in 2 decades, the Congress has a clear 'next in line', so the media immediately asks who is next in line in the BJP. These questions werent asked after 2004, largely because at the time it wasn't 100% certain (only 20% certain) that Rahul Gandhi would be the Congress' leader.

All news channels have big headlines saying Modi is to blame for the BJPs loss as he projected himself as PM candidate. That is the biggest untruth possible.

But Oh well....guess we are used to this from the media by now...

Anonymous said...

It is lame excuse to blame media for BJP's debacle twice - 2004 and 2009. Yes, most of our media, esp in English, is anti-BJP but so it was in 1991, 1996 & 1998 / 1999 as well but BJP's stars continued to rise and it formed a first, genuine, non-Cong led govt at Center. The principal blame thus lies at the conduct, utterances, campaign, policy, focus - the genral picture - of BJP and its top leaders. Blaming media will not get it back to power. But, an honest introspection, appropriate actions, a new leadership + RSS wlling may do the trick - Congress is back on its arrogant ways and sooner rather than later, the ugly reality will no more be hidden! Can BJP do that? Going by past 5 years in general, and last 3 months in particular, omens are NOT good at the moment. But, 5 years is a long time so who knows but the present is very bleak indeed.

Swabhimaan said...

Frankly speaking, I don't completely believe in this RSS vs non-RSS debate. It is individuals who have vested interests, and ofcourse they belong to a larger group. So, what we end up doing is that we paint the whole group with the same brush. It was wrong on Jaswant's part to paint the whole RSS with the same brush. What makes Jaswant a saint? It is widely believed that all politicians are corrupt. So, Jaswant should accept that for himself too then. Why doesn't he get himself something better do than to write a book on Jinnah?

Get over this episode quickly BJP..don't waste your time over Jinnah's jin. People really don't care for Jaswant or his Jinnah but they admire Sardar Patel. That is the truth. This is how middle India looks at him. Middle India admires the Man of Steel, not Gandhi, not Nehru.

Times NOW is God.... Arnab is God..they can never be wrong. I heard only one sane voice yesterday and that was of Nalini Singh. Wonder when Arnab will turn the searchlights on himself! I find Prabhu Chawla extremely irritating but he seems to have talked sense this time.

Waiting for the chintan's result(if there is going to be one).

Anonymous said...

comment siad
//Did he say that he is the PM candidate? I don't think so. This was largely created by the media and the Congress. So why blame him?

exactly.

there are two easy tests

for treason: u r atraitor when you arae against a godsent courageous,hardworkning patriot like modi.

for stupidity : u would have to be really stupid and ignorant if by now u do not know how the el media-mafia has been camapaigning againts modi for last 7 24-7 years paid by jihadis from all over eg teesta's arabian funds etc


stuck like a record just like GOPI who has been campaigning against modi right here.

Anonymous said...

//Whatever it was, it is affecting people's voting decisions. If the party cannot come out with an explanation, they have to drop the people involved in that affair.

this commenter must be god.i want to do his pooja.

he can read minds of not one person but millions of voters.

i agrree with the kid who siad the muslim vote made congress get 206.and congress and other seculars like osama look alikes laloo and paswan know how important that vote is.

no wonder congress mafia media do their election prestunts like varun,modi for pm,ugly hindu etc to mobilize the muslim vote in opposition to bjp.

how much brains do people nedd to know that in india in a multicornered contest 28 % vote got congress 206 and every vote counts and tmuslims had no choice but upa to defeat bjp.

but this commenter is god even if he has no brains

Anonymous said...

//You just nailed it.

Bring back honest, clean leaders like NaMo, Arun Shourie and others and within 3 years BJP will be back in the game.//


reply

not completely true panj.u disapoint

as you said bjp has honest leaders too. congress is all rogues in fact that is the qualification to be congressi swisss bank depositor

bjp has not weilded power in 6 years at center.

so it is not fair to conclude as u did.

ofcousre there will be rotten apples
but to leap to a general conclusion is unwarranted.


it is by far the part with adifference compared to secular scoundrels.

for one it is far less dynastic and dictatorial .
ofcourse there are some exceptions but u cant have anything 100 % even best students dont get all qs right.

as i said u disappoint

Anonymous said...

I am a hardcore fan of the BJP and in the past such satires would have made me see red. Now I actually can see the point and laugh:

http://blogs.outlookindia.com/default.aspx?ddm=10&pid=2021&eid=5

Rajesh