Comments on Usual Suspects: Farewell to the H-word

Swapanji u hv hit d nail on d coffin... datz xactl...

2009-06-19T09:41:42.551+05:30

Swapanji u hv hit d nail on d coffin... datz xactly wat d Modern Hindu thnks 2day.. i m a 1st time voter n voted 4 d BJP.. but still i was happy 2 see d Congress win.. n d reasons r wat u jst stated

PS - Swapanji i m following u on twitter.. is dat really ur profile??.. wnt 2 confirm

I loved the debate started by Swapan,Kanchan,Jaitl...

2009-06-12T09:49:20.042+05:30

I loved the debate started by Swapan,Kanchan,Jaitley and Kulkarni.
This is the BJP that I knew. Debate was open and frank.
In the name of Discipline , this voice which connected with argumentive middle class was stiffled. We should keep up.
BJP and Deshbakhts will bounce back.

Jasso is Lilliput, self seeker who destroyed BJP in Rajasthan. Jasswant and Yashwant have not soul or substance but only self-interest.
BJP is a party which worships Lord Rama which symbolizes sacrifice.

Ronak bapas aagi

Vikas
Vikas

great comments senthil.liberal arts majors are bot...

2009-06-07T02:15:18.598+05:30

great comments senthil.liberal arts majors are bottom ranked in school and have no choice but arts instaed of competitive sc,engineering,commerce,law,business and it is these who are dominating public discourse like most english media and their poster boys from jnu like dip gupta from jnu whose insight was that we shuld have a muslim pm after obama won on merit despite his race,not because of it.And nandita das B.A in geography,oh even more comptetitive than iit major ,the great poster girl of elmedia whose intellectual genius comment was that there was only one side to gujarat 2002 and thatw as only muslims were killed and no hindus were not kiled in train to cause riots.

how cum bush did not lose because of christaian e...

2009-06-07T01:52:14.675+05:30

how cum bush did not lose because of christaian evalengilism or iraq afghan retaliation wars
even if the patrobertson christian right win is significant and campaigns on clear cut issues.

this is the difference between american media and congress owned desi el mafia posing as media.

contrast with so called h in india.I do not remeber any h campaign in modi advani speeches.even varun spoke about protecting hindus because 4 hindu girls were raped.if that is hindutva then it only congirms thta to jihadi media mafia any self defence assertion by hindus is h.so let us have more 26-11s guys.

the media wants us to believe that h and muthalik lost and no one cares about terror and some idiots are falling for it while islamic rule
has taken over india by proxy and congress-media mafia know this and will always pull another tehelka pink chaddi type stunt before elections
with entire media mafia drumbeating it 24-7 like guj 2002.motive get that 25 % muslim vote to turn out and congress wins by 28 % total.

this is the difference between american media and congress owned desi el mafia posing as media.

swapan and others how many of u remember the dec...

2009-06-07T01:40:11.815+05:30

swapan and others

how many of u remember the decision to give madrasa degrees the same status as other legit degrees and the mullah fatwa aginst coed education.did anyy media pounce on the mullahs like muthalik.isnt education more important than drinks at a pub.this is the depravity of the elmedia which is frauding indians.mafia as someone said.

yet all of u remember muthalik and some braindead posters think rsene is bjp even if rseene contested against bjp and could easily be bought by congress.

congresss won because of islamitva and bjp did not lose because of h.muthalik is not bjp.that was malicious propagnada.bjp is modi who demolished temples and got nano and stays in villages in summer heat with his babus.how many know that?

india does not have the institution of media at least in the english language.nowhere in the world does the media campaign exclusively against opposition and that too based on falsehood but elm has been doing this against bjp for years because of their muslim-hindu connectiosn and interests.an elm ed said yaers ago to mush that they would take care of bjp.

why bring h or youth or mclass into it.

this is false propaganda against bjp when congress is islamizing the nation and knows the pwoer of the islamic veto as u said before.

remeber muslim population is growing and bangladeshis too are encouraged by congress so there is no incentive to perform just do rsene,godhra,varun,tehelka pink chaddi propaganda against bjp just before elections.

these are facts.h or no h congress won because of islamitva and no one is telling congress that they mixing religion with votebank politics is abhorent and the middleclass abhors such values.

just do the vote math 28 % congresss vote and 20 -25 % of that is muslim vote because of high turn out.

add the marxiists missionaries and corrupt babus who dont like swiss bank idea of bjp and that explains it.

why do you need to bring h into this and be led on by a congress meia who have the gall to call u a bjp idealogue when they hide their congress
t shirts all the time to cheat indians by posing as media.

problem is devious cunning and corrupt media and congress have won for 5 more years of false promises and the sincere nationalistic bjp has lost because of islamitva or "hate-hindu anationalistic muslims first and only votebank"

"We understand as a "socialite" the...

2009-06-06T21:28:10.143+05:30

"We understand as a "socialite" their are lot of pressure on you. For e.g. : fear of exclusion from liberal dominated socialite circles, parties etc. But still these reasons doesn't justify your Hindutva denouncement for personal satisfaction. And ya one last question: Why don't you held Advani and Jaitley responsible for this defeat ? Why are these people not come under scrutiny from you ? Why you jumped on the conclusion so easily and early that ideology (Hindutva) is the reason behind this defeat and it's an impediment for the BJP ? You didn't explain us why BJP was wining assembly polls if people "abhors" Hindutva and BJP so much ? We want answers of these questions Mr. Swapan da. Stop concealing truth and shielding your friend. We are grown up kinds!"

I agree, makes lot of sense!!!

Swapan by writing this article u have done great d...

2009-06-06T15:49:34.385+05:30

Swapan by writing this article u have done great damage to BJP than this defeat. U'll realize it after some years. This defeat was expected, it may have surprised limelight hungry (specially electronic media) people like u but for zameeni worker like me it doesn't come as a surprise. I wonder why r u behaving like this,there is no need to press panic button. All it needs to recover from this defeat is: impeccable credibility, impressible leadership, ideological clarity and apologetic attitude on Hindutva matters, aggressiveness in the parliament and while dealing with sickular media specially electronic. Hindutva is the way to go but before going on this path you need to show credibility, sincerity and there must be strong right-wing media. U can reject the demand of strong right-wing media (I also used to reject it out rightly) but later I also begun to fell it importance. I hope you will also change your thinking regarding this.

Coming back to the reason of defeat and Hindutva I would like to say you are not understanding the magnitude and impact of this defeat. This defeat is a conclusive death of BJP and I see no hope of it recovering from it. Unless it follows my above mentioned points. But since it doesn't have that kind of leaders who can pull it off from the mess it's in I see no hope. Worse it's surrounded by advisers like you who are pushing the party into deeper abyss. I want to write more on this but time is coming on my way so will do that later.

Just one line for you in the end : you are out of your mind, take a break. Don't react under peer group pressure. We understand as a "socialite" their are lot of pressure on you. For e.g. : fear of exclusion from liberal dominated socialite circles, parties etc. But still these reasons doesn't justify your Hindutva denouncement for personal satisfaction. And ya one last question: Why don't you held Advani and Jaitley responsible for this defeat ? Why are these people not come under scrutiny from you ? Why you jumped on the conclusion so easily and early that ideology (Hindutva) is the reason behind this defeat and it's an impediment for the BJP ? You didn't explain us why BJP was wining assembly polls if people "abhors" Hindutva and BJP so much ? We want answers of these questions Mr. Swapan da. Stop concealing truth and shielding your friend. We are grown up kinds!

Regarding the secularism of the USA, it is highly ...

2009-06-06T13:26:06.036+05:30

Regarding the secularism of the USA, it is highly exposed during the recent presidential election..

They have proved, that only a christian is going to be elected to the top post, and only those who go to churches has the means to contest..

I agree with Harsh completely. The Sangh should le...

2009-06-06T12:35:13.604+05:30

I agree with Harsh completely. The Sangh should let the BJP take up these issues. I don't know how they can ne convinced..but there has to be a beginning. Let BJP take up this initiative, convince the Sangh that it won't give up Hindutva and ask the other Sangh bodies to co-operate. Why can't they work together for their common goal? It will benefit all of them. I am sure the media war against the Sangh and the BJP will have no effect when the 'aam aadmi' is convinced'. His sympathies will lie with the Sangh and not the media then. Hindutva
(inclusive of development) can win!

Swapan, you need to make your definitions clear. W...

2009-06-06T11:36:15.944+05:30

Swapan, you need to make your definitions clear. What is Hindutva? You had written a blog post entitled "Pumpkin Republic" (http://www.swapan55.com/2009/05/pumpkin-republic.html). Are you repudiating that as a part of your current disavowal of Hindutva.

Hindutva needs a reinterpretation: from an hardlin...

2009-06-06T09:00:43.286+05:30

Hindutva needs a reinterpretation: from an hardline approach characterised by moral policing and aggressive mobilization to a strategic approach in which strategic interests of the Hindu community are safeguarded. In the former the focus is on a golden past but in reality its a harkening to the customs and institutions of the 18th century. In the latter the focus is on the future and the welcoming or at least tolerance of changes in lifestyles and social mores because in the strategic sense they do not really matter. What really matters is that strategic interests of the Hindu community vis a vis other communities are safeguarded. This means ensuring that temples don't get nationalized with their coffers in government hands and that Hindu sects don't suffer from government control so much so that established sampradayas have had to go to court to declare themselves as minorities. In its current form Hindutva is only about rabble rousing, empty sloganeering, moral policing and grandstanding. It also means that the new Hindutva should focus more on execution and results so that shouting and violent brigade is not allowed to hijack community interests.

For example, the Church in Kandhamal may be using unfair means to usurp tribal land but the problem is that the RSS personnel have not brought a single case to light. All we have are vague rumours. Had things been the other way round you could have been sure that the church would have launched a painstaking investigation and minutely detailed every single family that had gained benefits illegally or every person who had been involved in fradulent conversion. Instead what the Hindutva brigade did was engage in riots and punish innocent people that revolted even their supporters. What was the result of that tamasha? Has a single family been identified that has illegally usurped land? has a single eviction notice been served?

Or take another example. The bangladeshi infiltration issue is a serious one. But even in BJP ruled states there is not even the slightest interest to round up such people and put them for deportation after a due process of law. The US does it routinely. Yes the volume of illegal infiltrators in the US is much higher but still the ajuthorities manage to deport an appreciable number of illegal annually. What is the record of India under the NDA years or of the BJP governments whose leaders talk about infiltration and raise up riots but do nothing in actuality to identify and deport such illegals?

We do not need this kind of Hindutva which in actuality is not an ideology but just an attitude. This attitude has nothing to do with glorifying Hinduism or protecting the interests of the Hindu community in a substantive sense. Instead its based on a visceral hatred of all that is different from its idealized 18th century vision and its actions are nothing but expressions of frustration. After every agitation or riot the Hindutva brigade looks smugly at the devastation and says to itself "We taught them a lesson". Perhaps you did but the reality is that the rest of us have to pick up the pieces and the real issues that were involved are swept away in the outcry that followed.

We do not need this Hindutva. The sooner it goes the better it is.

see desi english mafia disguised as media conclusi...

2009-06-06T05:53:52.608+05:30

see desi english mafia disguised as media conclusions,all pushing their own agenda and advising bjp as if enemies' advice shuld be heeded.

1.sardesai says people hated muthalik and dont care about terror and pushing 26-11 issue.(muthalik was falsely linked to bjp by the same media 24-7 with tehelka's pink chaddi stunt joining in as usual with some tape stunt before elections and now they blame bjp,heads they win tails they win) theese guys must have bribed muthalik for that mangalore pub stunt with cameras waiting.indian bollywood-cricket drugged unaware short memoried gullibles fall for anything

2. wife sagarika ghose says voting congress is voting for nation

3. barkha says modi appeal only in gujarat but never said that sonia-rahul have no appeal in states they lost even after campaigning eg kntaka,gujarat,mp,chattisgarh,himachal,bihar,jharkand and winniing wb and kerala due to vote against left and up due to tactical muslim vote against bjp. yet dynasty has appela and modi has no appeal ouside gujarat even if actual dta shows that many constutuencies in knataka voetd for bjp in may assembly elections after modi campaigned and many in recent elections did just that after modi campaigned.

guys instead of falling for media-mafia fake hind analysis trap against bjp and hindu assertion against conversion and jihadi threat,please think.out of 28 % congress vote 20-25 % was minority vote.The rest was CORRUPT BABUS WITH SWISS BANK MONEY and people wh has stake in congress win like media and ofcourse some idiots who believe that muthalik is bjp thanks to media 24-7 false fraud congress paid propaganda to make minorities come out to vote against bjp and sway some pub culture ignorant middleclass youth.muthalik rsene contested against bjp and there are rumors that he has links with congress and media and the entire mangalore pub deal was staged like earlier tehelka stunts.

amazing no one questions this.everyone forgets the steps congress toook for power.use governors in jharkand,bihar goa.install cec and prez for 2009,abuse cbi for bsp and sp support in parliament.22 july cash for vote which media hid while playing varun tape 24-7. an all this recently not counting emergency,1984 nt rama rao
coup etc etc in 60 yrs.

so why cant muthalik be bribed and evms tampered anyone.ane we are discussing hindutva when islamitva is repsonsible for congress win.no wonder teesta can keep filing petitions in sc which appointed nanavti and now sit till modi hanged.

these desi english mafia disguised as media are unadulterated evil which is a combination of arrogance due to congress bribing and backing and worldwide muslim christian agenda against assertive non appeasing hindu leaders eg modi and bjp against muslims first and pro conversion
congress policies.

no wonder ndtv vir sanghvi area against patriots modi and admiral mehta after 26-11

BJP_Supporter said "I am not that knowledgea...

2009-06-06T05:14:58.086+05:30

BJP_Supporter said

"I am not that knowledgeable about things American. I would rather restrict to the issues within my country."

June 4, 2009 7:38 PM

Here is some info about Secularism in U.S.

Acoording to First Amendment

Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

This means there is institutional separation of Church and state. And this does not preclude presidents taking oath on the Bible. Nor, did this preclude Presidential Candidate Barak Obama from speaking to members of Churches like a Biblical Prophet. In fact Pastor Rick Warren, who is Christian Evangelist (fundamentalist) gave invocation during the Obama inauguration.
And Reverend Billy Graham had been giving invocations for decades and his Church is the source of funding for the Nagaland Church. It is more appropriate to say that Nagaland Church is a subsidiary of Baptist Church of U.S. It is interesting to note that according to this Reverend Hindus are pagans and are destined to Hell.
In the U.S., all donations to the Church are tax exempt, and the govt has no control over this money unlike in India. More over former President George W Bush signed ‘Faith based initiative’, according to which U.S. govt funds religious groups blurring the strict separation of Church and the State. During the reign of Bush 43, almost all the money (according to frontline of PBS nearly 99%) for this faith based initiative went to Christian groups. The rest went to interfaith groups.
In other words Christianity is held in high esteem in the U.S and A. No one here brings up slavery and genocide of the Native Americans at the drop of a hat. Even though Southern segregationists made theological justifications for Slavery based on the Bible.

i have lost alll respect for swapan after this art...

2009-06-06T02:11:26.385+05:30

i have lost alll respect for swapan after this article.Usually el congress media write such articles depending on results,if bjp wins it does so because it has communalized electorate or fear factor,if it loses it it is because of hindutva.

So yeah,it won knataka,gujarat,chattisgarh,mp,jharkand,himachal,
and bihar and decent perf in maharashtra despite raj t because of hindutva and it lost in uttarakhand and rajasthan because of hindutva.great.

media people are pushing their anti h agenda
as usual whther bjp loses or wins and swapan
is helping them for being invited to tv shows and write articles on their pages for his own interest.

ironically the devious media make sure his bjp
affiliations are screamed about,while they hide their own congress and anti bjp t shirts.

I dont know why my ealrier comment wasnt allowed.....

2009-06-06T01:30:31.550+05:30

I dont know why my ealrier comment wasnt allowed..Was it inadvertent?

All this debate is useless. There is a 2 day old n...

2009-06-06T00:59:50.193+05:30

All this debate is useless.
There is a 2 day old news item about a Hindu "Mahant hacked to death in Orissa" tucked
away in corners of newspapers. Nobody would have read it, nobody will discuss it.

All BJP needs to do to win next time is have it's own media which can highlight such issues.
Hindutva is not wrong, the way it is projected by media is.

Swapanda, In these times of recession, a lot of i...

2009-06-05T21:41:00.916+05:30

Swapanda,

In these times of recession, a lot of industries need government bailout not just media. India being a poor country, first priority must be given to those industries which employ a lot of unskilled and semi skilled labour, and ones these industries are bailed out and govt can still afford only then those industries which support the relatively well off section of the society like media should be bailed out. BJP must question govt in parliament as to the procedure by which Rs. 400 crore was sanctioned as bailout package for media.

http://www.rediff.com/election/slide-show/2009/jun...

2009-06-05T19:57:38.746+05:30

http://www.rediff.com/election/slide-show/2009/jun/05/slide-show-1-why-the-bjp-lost-elections-2009.htm

I urge everybody to go thru this article.Even BJP would do well to retrospect by reading this..

zoomindianmedia, please do not clutter this blogsp...

2009-06-05T17:40:23.156+05:30

zoomindianmedia, please do not clutter this blogspace by advertising yours.

Just to set record straight on secularism, contrar...

2009-06-05T17:18:05.121+05:30

Just to set record straight on secularism, contrary to what few anons are implying secularism is a big issue neither in UK nor US.

As far as UK is concerned its head of state is also head of church which violates even the most basic definition of secularism.

Coming to US even though it has establishment clause, it remains the most religious western nation which is well evident in its polity, many of the contentious issues (eg Evolution, Abortion) are more or less religious in nature.

I don't wish to be rude but seriously anons who are lecturing BJP on secularism should quit smoking whatever they are. I will be frank, I would like nothing better than to see idiots like Varun Gandhi and Pramod Muthalik driven out of broader Hindutva movement*.

However I hold no delusion that this will somehow make BJP secular (and by extension respectable) in eyes of our secular liberal establishment,for the simple reason these idiots are hardly the primary reasons BJP is termed anti-Secular.

Those reasons include abrogating article 370 and uniform Civil Code. Now one can make an argument that these issues are counterproductive as far as elections are concerned, but to argue for eschewing these issues in name of Secularism is bizarre, not to say a little perverted.

Which is why I propose that other commentators stop taking these secular anons seriously.

Personally I am of opinion that secularism is just a euphemism for dhimmitude, intended to mask over our intellectual indolence and spiritual cowardice.

* This has precedence when William F Buckley and Barry Goldwater cast out John Birch society from the mainstream American conservative movement.

Mr. Oldtimer BJP paid the price for deploying nea...

2009-06-05T16:16:32.736+05:30

Mr. Oldtimer

BJP paid the price for deploying neandral communist sudheendra kulkarni and using his communist strategems like doublespeak.

I have an elaborate set of analyses
http://zoomindianmedia.wordpress.com/2009/05/17/election-2009-analysis

It will be revealing.

The one thing which has skipped everyones mind inc...

2009-06-05T15:24:04.082+05:30

The one thing which has skipped everyones mind including our so called intellectual genius who very recently has found the fine benefits of secularism that there could have been a possibility of foreign collaborated (Read CIA and MI5) Election voting machine Rigging in over 300 seats.

Who knows BJP should have got 200 seats but was not allowed to do so by US/UK?.

Then people like Swapan DasGupta would not had the license to blame Hindutva for it.

How is that the AIADMK, the communists, Laloo Prasad, BJP, BSP, Mulayam, SAD, Ramvilas paswan and others who were AGAINST the congress heavily and those who internally collaborated with the Congress namely Naveen patnaik Won so handsomely contrary to Congress's own favorable opinion polls?.

Let's look at the CPIM. An extreme leftwing pa...

2009-06-05T14:00:36.017+05:30

Let's look at the CPIM. An extreme leftwing party conisting of creepy old stalinists and Christian/Islamic fundamentalists who find in Marxism a 'secualr' cover for Hindu-baiting. Yet, the CPIM never shied way from showing
its true colors. For living up to its fanatical ideology, the party got a drubbing at the hustings at long last.

Can BJP's defeat be attributed to borrowing some elements of that ideology?

Take for instance the nucelar deal. The BJP's opposition to it was virtually indistinguishable from CPIM's. Note that CPIM separated from the Congress because of the deal, and went on to lose the elections. How can we not assume that the same revulsion shown to the CPIM for opposing the deal (to the extent of attempting to bring the government down) reflected on the BJP as well?

Take the farmer suicide hungama. Using communist newspapers, Sainath and co built up this pernicious propaganda that the economic liberalization of the 90's and globalization of this decade resulted in farmer suicides. BJP took up the same cause, and prattled on and on about farmer suicides. Did it do well at least in places where the suicides are claimed to have happened? No!

So here's the irony. Leftwing nutjobs are accusing the BJP of being an extreme rightwing party. But the BJP campaigned on the same platform as leftwing extremists!!

There were several anonymous comments (possibly th...

2009-06-05T13:14:23.174+05:30

There were several anonymous comments (possibly the same person) lauding the American clarity on Secularism and several other 'modern' things. The same comments chided the Hindoo for his inability to grasp such things.

Well, this must have got the attention of atleast one of the several millions of Hindoo Gods, for they send this our way -

President Obama speech quote (link http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124409999530984503.html - this is a keeper)

"I consider it part of my responsibility as president of the United States to fight against negative stereotypes of Islam wherever they appear," he said to repeated applause in the ornate-domed Great Hall. "But that same principle must apply to Muslim perceptions of America. "
-x-x end quote -x-x

If you are so washed up, you might read this several times over and over and not get anywhere. So a bit of explaining might be needed.

This is an equation Obama is trying to set between America and Islam.

America is a Nation. Islam is a religion.

For this equation to make sense, America needs to represent a religion. We know it does not. Hence Islam needs to represent a Nation. Which for many people it exactly does between Indonesia to India to Egypt.

Go figure.

Especially for Anonymous who has a big trouble wit...

2009-06-05T12:05:12.877+05:30

Especially for Anonymous who has a big trouble with Varun Gandhi..ok what he said was harsh...but there was a context that was lost in the noise.

http://www.dailypioneer.com/164149/Varun-was-harsh-but-so-is-truth.html

The BJP did not do a good job either ...either it didn't know about this problem or it gave in to pressures of the 'secular media' and the 'secular opposition'. Why were the reasons never brought up by any spokesperson? You have Kapil Sabil praising M.F Hussein and Arun Jaitley can't counter him and bring out the truth..Why is the BJP feeling guilty? Why is it not being firm? It is totally confused and is not able to defend itself..Sure when there are incidents of the Shri Ram Sene types I don't want it to say things like 'such things happen because there are pubs'. The BJP has to strike a balance, draw a line. Be firm when you know you are not wrong even if it is unpalatable for the media and the opposition. How many Hindus know about Pilibhit? Also be firm against the lunatics whichever Sena they belong to.

Had the BJP talked about the situation in Pilibhit I wouldn't have been hearing people saying Varun was wrong..Maneka was wrong in supporting him and the BJP was also wrong. Speak out the truth! Why can't you? If this results in polarisation...let it be. Who is gaining at the expense of BJP's confusion? Clearly it is the opposition.